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How to check whereif the file is translated in Trados?
Thread poster: Olga Tichomirova-ten Zijthoff

Olga Tichomirova-ten Zijthoff
Netherlands
Local time: 19:31
Member (2008)
Dutch to Russian
+ ...
May 6, 2010

Good morning to everyone,

I have got a translated text and I suspect that it was translated in Trados. F.e. I see a lot of dubble spaces between words and normally there are not there.
Does anyone know a method to check if the translation has been done in Trados when only having the target document?

Your wise words will be very much appreciated,
regards,

OtZ


 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 19:31
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Only if the translation has been done in Word May 6, 2010

there is a slight possiblity to detec, that Trados (or Wordfast AFAIK) has been used - some "extra" with tw4win (for Trados) in their name will then exist.
However, if the text has been translated using Tageditor or Studio, there is IMHO no possibility to proof that.

However, why do you think duplicate spaces would be a sign of Trados-translation?
For me they are just a sign for a very bad translator, but I do not understand why do you want to blame a CAT-tool for a bad human work...


 

Hans G. Liepert  Identity Verified
Switzerland
Local time: 19:31
English to German
+ ...
Cui bono? May 6, 2010

Even if your suspicion is right, what does it help or prove? As long as there is no legal ban on CAT tools any knowlege about its use will satisfy your curiosity only.

 

Olga Tichomirova-ten Zijthoff
Netherlands
Local time: 19:31
Member (2008)
Dutch to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
This was a translation done in Word May 6, 2010

Thanks for your fast reply Jerzy,

I am a big fan of CAT-tools and do not want to blaim them for anything. In my experience, after cleaning a Word file, there are a lot of dubble spaces left in the text even when during the translation you try to prevent that.

What extra's will be left in the titel?


 

FarkasAndras
Local time: 19:31
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Only if you are doing it wrong. May 6, 2010

Olga ten Zijthoff wrote:

In my experience, after cleaning a Word file, there are a lot of dubble spaces left in the text even when during the translation you try to prevent that.


That's user error. Trados doesn't insert extra spaces. If there is a space at a segment boundary (and there usually is), it doesn't include it in either segment, and for good reason. It's just left there on its own between the two segments so you don't have to do anything with it.
If the translator then decides to put a space at the end of the first segment because they have no idea how Trados works and think that this will be needed as there is no space either at the end of segment 1 or at the start of segment 2, they of course end up with a double space.



Either way, I think every self-respecting translator should always check for rogue double spaces after translation and cleanup. In word, it takes literally 5 seconds. (CTRL-H, space, space, tab, space, Enter... then replace or skip each as needed.)


 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 19:31
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
No duplicate spaces or other errors, if you do it right May 6, 2010

Sorry, but regardless of Trados, SDLX or whatevere, if you pay attention to what you do as translator with a CAT tool, no extra duplicate spaces must occur.
Only if you have had duplicated spaces between sentences, they will most probably remain, as with CAT you do not translate between sentences.

So again - duplicate spaces between words are a proof for bad translation (technicaly speaking), but have nothing to do with CAT. Of course if you finde some occurances of duplicate spaces, then it belongs to the category sh... happens. However, if the problem does occur in nearly every sentence, then the human being in front of the computer was simply uncapable.


 

Olga Tichomirova-ten Zijthoff
Netherlands
Local time: 19:31
Member (2008)
Dutch to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, but my question was about something else May 6, 2010

I mostly ment the dubble spaces between the sentences and if you could advise how to prevent them during the translation in Trados - please do.
However, I asked about the 'lefties' or other signs of Trados in a target text.


 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 19:31
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
For double spaces between sentences - remove them prior or past the translation May 6, 2010

When translating in Word you can simply do a search&replace operation for ^s^s and replace with ^s, where ^s represents a normal space - to be entered via keyboard by pressing the space key.

As for the "lefties" - they appear mostly in pale green colour, so you could search for them. Also look in styles - if there are any Trados styles left, search for them in the document.
But again, when working properly, there should be nothing left, just the style names, if you don't delete them prior to delivery.


 

Sushan Harshe
India
Local time: 23:01
English to Hindi
+ ...
Double space is a problem with Unicode (may be with all or some languages) May 6, 2010

Hi Olga,

While working with CAT in Unicode (offcourse!) I have observed that at end of sentence curser gets stuck to last character. Normally you press the space bar and it gets free. (And you are not aware about the extra white space!) After experience you start using left arrow key to free curser. This happens with Indian languages. I don't know about other languages.
Commonly nobody unnecessarily makes a double space. In my opinion, this is a sign of use of a CAT.

Regards,

Sushan


 

Rebekka Groß  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:31
English to German
double spaces between sentences are not uncommon May 6, 2010

Olga ten Zijthoff wrote:

I mostly ment the dubble spaces between the sentences and if you could advise how to prevent them during the translation in Trados - please do.


In the UK, for example, it's standard practice to have 2 spaces after each sentence. Therefore, there might be a possibility that that was the case in the source text. That being given, it's nothing to do with Trados and has to be changed during the DTP stage - or by simply searching for double spaces and replacing them with a single space.


 

FarkasAndras
Local time: 19:31
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Esoteric phenomena May 6, 2010

I don't even have the vaguest idea what Susan means. Working in Unicode? End of sentence cursor? Stuck to a character? In what way? With what document format, in what software? None of that bears any resemblance to reality as I know it.

And Rebekka, I never heard of double spaces between sentences in any variety of English. Any native speakers care to comment?


 

Luisa Ramos, CT  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:31
Member (2004)
English to Spanish
Double, and even triple spaces between sentences May 6, 2010

This is a common feature in English, reminiscent of times long gone by. I translate into Spanish and 99% of the time I have to do a "search and replace" after the clean up, to eliminate the extra spaces from my target document.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing
http://desktoppub.about.com/cs/typespacing/a/onetwospaces.htm
http://www.westminster.edu/staff/nak/courses/spaces.htm


 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 19:31
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Double spaces May 6, 2010

A quick check and a nice result: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing

Ups, sorry, someone was much faster here. Spot on, Luisa.

[Edited at 2010-05-06 15:08 GMT]


 

FarkasAndras
Local time: 19:31
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Prehistorical May 6, 2010

Well, as the Wikipedia page shows, that is hardly standard practice. It went out of fashion 60 years ago (20 if you want to be very generous), and is now considered incorrect by most sources.

None of the English documents I have had to translate so far had double sentence spacing... interesting historical tidbit, though.


 

Ivana UK  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:31
Member (2005)
Italian to English
Two spaces after a full stop is the norm in the UK May 6, 2010

FarkasAndras wrote:

And Rebekka, I never heard of double spaces between sentences in any variety of English. Any native speakers care to comment?


Definitely the norm in the UK - first thing I was tought when I learned to type.


 
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