Italicizing entries in Multiterm: Important...
Thread poster: Paula Tizzano Fernández

Paula Tizzano Fernández  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:15
English to Spanish
+ ...
Jul 17, 2010

Important to me, of course, because if I can't find out how to solve this, I will have to spend lots of manual edition of entries along a very long file...

I can't figure out how to format entries in Multiterm, so that the entry text is italicized.
When I create Multiterm entries (either in Multiterm 2007 or in Multiterm 2009), I can only input regular unformatted text (no italics, no small caps, no bold). But I need the entries to keep certain character formatting which is mandatory in my project.

I wonder if there is a plugin, or command, or add-on which can help me create entries with formats.

I have posted a similar question with no results. Sorry that I insist, but I have browsed the manuals, the Help page at SDL to no avail. I haven't found a forum post reply to this effect, either.

Any help will be really appreciated, and I think this post may be useful to other colleagues as well. It strikes me as a strange thing that no one has pointed this issue before, which makes me think that the solution perhaps is so obvious and easy... that it is not an "issue" to anyone but me.

Ignorance is not bliss, in this case.
Thanks, everyone!


 

Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:15
French to Polish
+ ...
Impossible in Multiterm... possible workarounds... Jul 17, 2010

Paula Tizzano Fernández wrote:

I can't figure out how to format entries in Multiterm, so that the entry text is italicized.

It's impossible.
It's not because Multiterm is a badly programmed tool but the formatting is not the purpose of a typical terminology management tool.

When I create Multiterm entries (either in Multiterm 2007 or in Multiterm 2009), I can only input regular unformatted text (no italics, no small caps, no bold). But I need the entries to keep certain character formatting which is mandatory in my project.

The problem is not how to store the formatting but how to retrieve it.
E.g., if you use the Word workflow, you can pretranslate the file with the term pretranslation enabled.
In this case, Trados uses a different style you can easily transform in the formatting you like.
The problem is the Word workflow for pretranslated files, especially huge ones, is not handy at all.

I wonder if there is a plugin, or command, or add-on which can help me create entries with formats.

IMO the most sound way to do it is to daisychain the term insertion command and the formatting command, e.g. using AutoHotkey or a different scripting program.
You can also insert "fake" terms containing the begin and end string, then use regular expressions in order to change the formatting in the batch mode (it will work only in the Word workflow).

Any help will be really appreciated, and I think this post may be useful to other colleagues as well. It strikes me as a strange thing that no one has pointed this issue before, which makes me think that the solution perhaps is so obvious and easy... that it is not an "issue" to anyone but me.

Well, I can imagine situations where the formatting is crucial, e.g. chemical terminology.

Cheers
GG


 

Paula Tizzano Fernández  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:15
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The Editor's limitations of Studio 2009 are a BIG problem... Jul 17, 2010

Dear Grzegorz:
Thanks for your prompt answer.

I have workarounds for this when I use Trados 2007 and Multiterm 2007 within Word 2007 environment.

This I do in two ways:
1. Using Word autocorrect option, that is, whenever I type a certain word in normal text, autocorrect turns it into formatted text in italics (where italics are mandatory of course).

2. When I insert a Multiterm match in a Word doc, the input text is inserted in a highlighted form, so I can italicize it with one single key (I have F3 for italics in my customized Word) for the selection. So the formatting is smart and fast, just to hit an italics key.

But now I am testing Multiterm 2009 in Studio 2009, which uses its own Editor.
The editing options of this Editor are very poor in comparison with the usual commands of a text processing software, and this is an important shortcoming in Trados Studio 2009. I say this because, as a colleague made a point of noticing, our work is mainly word processing.

And a CAT tool which pretends to substitute a very complete word processing software should at least offer the same functions... or work within the environment of another program (as traditional Trados 2007).

For instance, if I want to make a search for a word in regular font and replace it with italicized text, this I can perfectly do in Word, but not in the Studio 2009 Editor, as I have seen. So the editing capabilities are not very complete, and this creates a slow down in the process, even though AutoSuggest speeds up another elements.

In my opinion, they should find a way of using Word environment, or improve the Editor's functions so we can still do there what we did in Word.

Thanks anyway for your kind answer.

I guess I will have to make selective search and replace for all the terms FROM WORD, after the file is translated and cleaned in Trados. This is a waste of time, but I will have to do it as there is no other option, it seems.

Thanks again!


 

Walter Blaser  Identity Verified
Switzerland
Local time: 13:15
French to German
+ ...
A CAT tool is not a complete word processing software! Jul 18, 2010

Paula

This is a basic question of what the purpose of a CAT tool is
SDL Trados Studio 2009 is a format independent editor, meaning that its purpose is to separate the content form the format, allowing the translator to concentrate on his job, which is to translate the content without the need to fiddle around with the details and complexity of the layout and formatting of the document. Your translatable text will look quite the same in Studio whether it comes from a Word document, a PowerPoint presentation or a FrameMaker document. That is the big advantage of using a format-independent editor.

Basically, one can expect that translating a text into another language usually does not involve formatting changes. It rather involves transfers of formats, meaning that the word in bold in the target is a different one than the one in the source, but you rarely introduce additional formatting. There may be cases where this is necessary, for example for additional notes in another style. However, the basic idea is that the target document that you generate will have the same layout and formatting as the source document.
Based on this assumption, I believe that the formatting capabilities provided in Studio are sufficient as you can introduce all basic formatting styles. The only thing you cannot do is change the font, but again that is not the purpose.

Keep in mind: Studio is a translation tool, not a word processor. And our main job is to translate the content and not to fiddle around with the layout.

Walter


 

FarkasAndras
Local time: 13:15
English to Hungarian
+ ...
As you yourself said... Jul 18, 2010

Paula Tizzano Fernández wrote:

It strikes me as a strange thing that no one has pointed this issue before, which makes me think that the solution perhaps is so obvious and easy... that it is not an "issue" to anyone but me.

Indeed this is not an issue to anyone but you, because we are usually asked to maintain source formatting. Any extra formatting introduced through Multiterm would be nothing but a massive pain in the neck, so the feature doesn't exist.

Just to satisfy my curiosity, what has been requested of you? Do you have to translate a non-italicized text using a glossary provided by the client, and italicize every word that occurs in the glossary even though they are not italicized in the source? What's the point of that?
If you're translating a term list and you need the whole thing to be in italics, you can italicize it after translation.


 

Paula Tizzano Fernández  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:15
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Keep in mind too: A translator is a linguist, and orthotypographic rules can't be extrapolated. Jul 18, 2010

Walter Blaser wrote:


Keep in mind: Studio is a translation tool, not a word processor. And our main job is to translate the content and not to fiddle around with the layout.

Walter


Well, this depends on how you consider the essence of a translator.
If you are an interpreter, and use CAT tools to prepare the back-office contents of your interpretation in advance, then graphic contents are completely redundant and unnecessary.

But if you are a translator and work with written language, then you can see yourself as a linguist in all justice. And a linguist is an expert in language in all its aspects.

Language involves many branches of study and mastery, and orthotipography is one of them. As you may surely know, this field of study establishes in which cases a structural or semantic element should be italicized, capitalized, written in small caps, quoted in single, double, lower or upper quotes, for instance, and a hundred of annoying but necessary pieeces of knowledge that you must use in your translation, if you aspire to produce a work of quality, containing as less mistakes and errors as possible. (I don't plan to discuss here the subject of proscriptivism vs. prescriptivism, though. Let's just imagine that the author or the PM demands that you use all the proper Spanish language rules in your translation.)

So I don't agree with your assertion that "our work is not to fiddle around with the layout", as long as character formatting is not only a matter of "layout", but a matter of strict orthotypographic rules, which in Spanish language are possibly stricter and less flexible than in English.

**But even if it were a matter of "just layout", one has to be very careful, because English editorial design orthotypo rules are different from Spanish. As an example, you don't indent the first sentence of a chapter in English, but it should be indented in Spanish. (Many people ignore this, however, because layout artists do not study orthotypography in their study plans at the university, very sorry to say, and so thinking that an English design rule is "universal", they "innocently" extrapolate them into the Spanish layout work, with many consequences which exceed the scope of this post.) Again, the titles of the books in the back of the cover should be placed in the opposite direction in Spanish and in English, but you see many books in the shelves with the wrong text orientation (upside down...).**

These examples are meant to illustrate that EVEN layout considerations are not homologous among languages, and so "automatically keeping formats" can be a blesssing and a problem at the same time. Some criteria are optional, and subjective in nature (the font you like), but others involve rules, and rules differ from one language to the other.

Leaving "layout" aside, then you have the orthotypographic rules proper to each language, which a linguist should know and use properly. Again, and just as in the case of "editorial design", in the production of a text these rules are not homologous among languages. This means that if you automatically transfer to a Spanish text the orthotypographic rules or English, you will be inserting mistakes in your translation.

For example, the use of italics.
Sometimes, English does not italicize certain xenisms in the original, but they must be written in italics in Spanish. If I am translating an academic work from English with dozens of terms in Japanese which the source writes in regular text, and I want to keep them in Japanese in the translation, the proper way of writing them is in italics. (For example, "bushido", "katana" and other foreign words).

If this occurs only once in the text, I can open the finalized file in Word and make a search and replace command, introducing thus the italics in all occurrances. But if I have, let's say... 50 techical xenisms, and I have to manually do this replacement after the translation is done, with the risk of missing some terms... then it is not very efficient.

So the ideal thing would be to create multiterm entries so that every time "bushido way" comes up in English, I may be offered the translation "filosofía de vida del /bushido/" in Spanish, where the term /bushido/ is selectively written in italics.

I hope this example has been instrumental to show you that "character formatting" does not involve just a matter of "layout", but a matter of orthotypographic rules which are specific to each language.

Of course, a translator can just shrug and say "the editor will take care of this". But what if you are a thorough translator who wants to deliver a flawless work, of ir you are the editor, and you have to edit the work using SDL Trados. Then it's the same thing.

Either as a translator or as an editor, you need that your CAT or word-processing tool is instrumental for automatizing or optimizing this kind of operations.

What I am saying is that extrapolating formats is as "convenient" as "inconvenient", because formats refer both to layout and to graphic rules of language, and CAT tools designers should consider all this in their work.

If software designers conceive SDL Trados Studio 2009 as a CAT tool ("not a word processing software" !!!!, but, alas, translating IS strictly word processing!), then they should have designed the software to be used in combination with a word processing program such as Word (as it used to be before, in Trados 2007).

If they want to set free from Word, which is a valid purpose in terms of autonomy, then they should have included in the Editor more capabilities which translators may need in our work.

I just wanted to know if I could do something in SDL Trados 2009 Editor, and in the end we ended up talking about other issues. Sorry for the diversion. I hope the discussion as been positive anyway, as these matters are important to us all.

Thanks for your input and for your observations, anyway, and best regards to everyone.

[Edited at 2010-07-18 21:35 GMT]


 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:15
English
Isn't this just Quick Inserts? Jul 18, 2010

Hi Paula,

I'm wondering why you can't do this with Quick Inserts in the Studio Editor? Most of the simple formatting features like this are available and you could format as you work. I don't think Studio pretends to be a word processor, in fact word can only handle a fraction of the file formats that Studio is capable of managing so I don't think you are comparing apples with apples.

However, I quite like the idea of being able to search and replace formatting, although this would need to be controlled very carefully. Maybe a good idea for ideas.sdl.com.

Regards

Paul


 

Paula Tizzano Fernández  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:15
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Oh, thanks!! Jul 18, 2010

This I will do now.
I will try this option and assess to which extent it can help me solve problems like the ones I mentioned.
Thank you very much!
I will come back later with the result of my experience, on behalf of others.

I appreciate your suggestion, Paul! Thanks again.


 

István Hirsch  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:15
English to Hungarian
Perhaps this will be faster Jul 20, 2010

When you add the target part of the new term in Studio 2009/Editor, select the target term, then press, for example, Ctrl + 8 (quickinsert «»). So you will get «target term» - this is what you add to the target box. The term goes into the termbase, and later will be pasted into the translation in this form.

When you are ready with the translation, and have cleaned the text, you can change the format in Word with Find «*» and Replace ^& (matched text) (formatting: italics) and selecting Wildcard. Deselect Wildcard and then, with Find/Replace again, you can delete « and ».


[Módosítva: 2010-07-20 14:40 GMT]


 


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