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Migration to Studio?
Thread poster: Joel Earnest

Joel Earnest
Local time: 07:40
Swedish to English
Sep 9, 2010

Just thought I'd mention that I received my first agency assignment today for which Studio is required (by the end-customer).
The situation otherwise in Sweden is that most agencies haven't yet gone beyond the planning stages. They've begun training but migration doesn't seem to be prioritized yet.

I'm really curious about the percentage of Trados users who have made the switch, not just installed it but who are actually using it. I wonder if the moderators could set up a poll.

[Edited at 2010-09-09 14:01 GMT]


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 07:40
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
I think you can propose a poll on your own Sep 9, 2010

And I would gladly particpate.

FYI: I am using Studio for all jobs not requiring Across or Transit.
This makes about 90% of my work.
This is the situation since April 2009.


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Joel Earnest
Local time: 07:40
Swedish to English
TOPIC STARTER
When I switched Sep 9, 2010

I switched to Studio for everything in July of last year, and have never missed my old favorite--the Word-Workbench combo.

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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:40
French to Polish
+ ...
When I switched :) Sep 9, 2010

Joel Earnest wrote:

I switched to Studio for everything in July of last year, and have never missed my old favorite--the Word-Workbench combo.

I switched to DVX in 2001 or 2002 and have never missed my old favorite subject of bad jokes - the Word-Workbench combo

Seriously speaking, Trados makes almost 100% of CAT jobs I receive (of course, I don't work in Trados...) but the Studio 2009 part is exactly 0%.
One time, I had a choice (my PM said "some translators prefer T2009, so if you want..."), I answered "no matter, as you like..." and I received TTX.

Gheers
GG


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 08:40
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Just installed Studio Sep 9, 2010

Up till now I haven't had any request for Studio. I asked one of my customers and they are not planning to switch yet.
Polls are implemented about a year after proposal.
Regards
Heinrich


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 07:40
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
I switched... to MemoQ Sep 9, 2010

My business is much too important to me, and did not want to risk losing time and nerves with a buggy software. At the time when Studio was released, and seeing the avalanche of bug reports and complaints all over the place, we in the team decided to give another tool a chance. We tried MemoQ and are awfully happy that we did. Now we have a nice server setup for a fraction of the cost of equivalent SDL products, and enjoy MemoQ's tremendous stability, fast-paced development, and responsive support.

Yes, some customers have switched to Studio and are beginning to send SDLXLIFF files... which we nicely translate with MemoQ. Our customers are aware of that, and are happy with the results so far. No glitch whatsoever with the files we deliver. We might purchase a license of Studio in the middle run, but it is not a dire necessity for now.

It is true that our customers in the Nordic countries are taking it easy about switching to Studio 2009.


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Joel Earnest
Local time: 07:40
Swedish to English
TOPIC STARTER
Requested a poll Sep 9, 2010

Heinrich Pesch wrote:
Polls are implemented about a year after proposal.


Hopefully it'll go faster than usual.
I like those message boards where anyone can start a poll. The ones of little interest quickly fade away, so there's very little poll clutter.

And by the way, what I liked about the old Word-Workbench combo was the "built-in" drag-and-drop, grammar and spell checking, as well as the pleasant interface without visible tags. But just being able to use multiple TMs in Studio was enough reason for me to move on.


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Giles Watson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 07:40
Italian to English
Go for it Sep 9, 2010

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

Now we have a nice server setup for a fraction of the cost of equivalent SDL products, and enjoy MemoQ's tremendous stability, fast-paced development, and responsive support.



Tomás is quite right about the cost differential for Trados and MemoQ if you are using the professional version.

As a freelancer, though, I am quite - no very - happy with the freelance version of Trados Suite 2009 after switching from Workbench. I should point out that I only did so in early 2010 after SP2 was released. I didn't want to relive the pain of the switch from DV3 to DVX, for which I also have a licence, because that involved a lengthy series of build releases from Atril until they got the new program something like right. SDL was obviously going through a similar step change with the move from WB to Suite 2009, so I thought I'd let them get on with it

As things stand, I prefer Suite 2009 to DVX. It's easier and much quicker to use with my specific workflow, which is not dictated by agencies (I don't work for them), but does involve a range of file types (Trados file filters are very good), although I find I still need LogiTerm for serious alignment tasks. I am prepared to accept Grzegorz's authoritative opinion that DVX is superior to Trados by his very technical criteria, and also Tomás's view that MemoQ is simplicity itself and wonderful for cost-conscious agencies, but for the time being I am making money with Trados Suite 2009.

Life goes on, however, so I look forward to the next generation of DV, and to the reactions from Trados, MemoQ and the rest of the gang.


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hhl
Local time: 07:40
English to German
CAT Battle Sep 9, 2010

I'm using Studio since the very beginning, and very shortly after the "buggy" first release, SP1 came out and unveiled the large potential of this tool (at least in my eyes and for my work).
With AutoSuggest, my typing work has meanwhile been reduced to some estimated 70% or less. The Return and Cursor Down keys seem to have become the most important keys. Also, the context-sensitive matching helps a lot with suggesting the right one, if multiple translations exist. There is really not much left, what I would reasonably demand from such tool.

But then ... I have no experience with all the new(?) non-Trados, non-SDL tools on the market, that are praised by the one or other contributor here. So, apart from a poll, what about kind of a "CAT feature battle", not based on opinions and biases, of course, but purely comparing the real features and true experiences with these?

To start with...
Studio 2009 - AutoSuggest Directory
As this features saves me so much time and avoids many typos, I would not like to do without anymore. Especially, as I'm "suggested" multiple flections in German phrases, so that I can quickly select the right one, without having to edit the phrase after inserting, adding an "s" or whatever. The termbase cannot reach out to this flexibility.
> Do the other tools on the market offer such feature?


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:40
French to Polish
+ ...
Having a long memory... Sep 9, 2010

Giles Watson wrote:

As a freelancer, though, I am quite - no very - happy with the freelance version of Trados Suite 2009 after switching from Workbench. I should point out that I only did so in early 2010 after SP2 was released.

You lost the most funny part of the story

I didn't want to relive the pain of the switch from DV3 to DVX, for which I also have a licence, because that involved a lengthy series of build releases from Atril until they got the new program something like right.

Well, I think the DV3 > DVX switch was simply scandalous, after a 16 months delay, the version was unworkable during approx. 6 months.
I was so desperate I purchased SDLX but two months later, the Atril guys finally managed to stabilize their stuff.
So, I realized I lost some money
The problem with Atril is they start to repeat the same scenario now (the new release was planned for June...) and I have no longer enough patience.
It they continue in this way, I'll need to definitively switch some day but I'll rather opt for memoQ.

SDL was obviously going through a similar step change with the move from WB to Suite 2009, so I thought I'd let them get on with it

For me, Suite is still at some beta stage.
The Suite itself is not so bad but the terminology module programming quality is simply awful.
During all my translator life, I never reinstalled DV3/DVX because it was corrupt (or I don't remember it), it happened to me once with memoQ but the problem was solved in 5 minutes.
I don't remember how many times I was forced to repair Trados/Multiterm and how many days I lost with it.
As all my thoughts on translation are based on terminology, I can't rely on a permanently unstable software.
Sorry.

As things stand, I prefer Suite 2009 to DVX. It's easier and much quicker to use with my specific workflow, which is not dictated by agencies (I don't work for them), but does involve a range of file types (Trados file filters are very good),

True.
So why I often use mixed workflows.
Trados is generally more flexible for the file import but the Word or TagEditor was simply primitive as a translation environment.

although I find I still need LogiTerm for serious alignment tasks. I am prepared to accept Grzegorz's authoritative opinion that DVX is superior to Trados by his very technical criteria,

Despite of the common opinions about me, I don't think the Trados users are necessarily idiots
We are simply different.
DVX acts in the abstract way I feel the translation, memoQ is very, very close, sometimes better but still lacks some features which are crucial for me.
The Trados progress is uncontestable, it's finally workable for me but the basic problem is the Trados guys didn't manage to stabilize Java based Multiterm during 10 years.
If I said the DVX switch was scandalous 'cause Atril failed to deliver it properly during almost 2 years, I can't find proper words for Multiterm.

and also Tomás's view that MemoQ is simplicity itself and wonderful for cost-conscious agencies, but for the time being I am making money with Trados Suite 2009.

Life goes on, however, so I look forward to the next generation of DV, and to the reactions from Trados, MemoQ and the rest of the gang.

Let's see.
The competition is favorable for us

Cheers
GG

[Edited at 2010-09-09 21:09 GMT]


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:40
French to Polish
+ ...
CAT Battle - ASD Sep 9, 2010

hhl wrote:

To start with...
Studio 2009 - AutoSuggest Directory

Dictionary, you mean?

As this features saves me so much time and avoids many typos, I would not like to do without anymore. Especially, as I'm "suggested" multiple flections in German phrases, so that I can quickly select the right one, without having to edit the phrase after inserting, adding an "s" or whatever. The termbase cannot reach out to this flexibility.

Yes, it can do it but you should invest more time in it.

> Do the other tools on the market offer such feature?


No.
At least not in the same way but sometimes it's far more effective than in Studio.

I.e. the DV/MQ users think in a different way, they are terminolology/subsegment oriented.
E.g., me, I have thousands human controlled terms and phrases in my TBs and for some texts it works like a machine translation engine.
Normally, I add up ot 100-200 terms/portions daily.
It's a terrible weapon.
With the DV subcategorization (subject, customer etc.), it works better than "blind" ASD dictionaries.
Another point, the ASD dictionaries are case sensitive which makes no sense at all for most languages, DV/MQ admit case conversion.

In DV3/DVX, I can create statistical maps of text, resolve it, then use in the ongoing project and in the next ones.
The ASD in Studio works only if you have a relatively big TM (25000 units), the DVX Lexicon related functions work in every project independently of it's size.
The DVX advantage (for me) is the portion insertion is non linear, i.e. all the terms are inserted simultaneously (AutoAssemble).
Of course, you can insert variants manually, if necessary.

In memoQ, you may use the terminology recognition which is far more flexible than in Multiterm (although it needs more tuning), it may be used by the DV AutoAssemble like feature, and you have also damn rapid automated concordance (LSC, longest substring concordance).
As I understand the memoQ development logic, the Kilgray guys may provide an ASD like feature on the fly, without the ASD dictionaries generation.
They need only to refine the LSC.
IMO memoQ has the "bestest" concordance module I ever seen.

Cheers
GG

[Edited at 2010-09-10 05:38 GMT]


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hhl
Local time: 07:40
English to German
CAT Battle Sep 9, 2010

@GG - just some short comments in between:

"you should invest more time in it" - that's a critical aspect for me: Time is something I don't have. Most of my translations have deadlines between same day and 2-3 days. And I'm pressured with jobs and internal management. The AutoSuggest Dictionary (I don't like acronyms creation works without interaction and time-consuming fine-tuning. Case sensivity is ok for me (German target). Terminology is another point I'll address with a separate post.


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 07:40
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
CAT Battle - AutoSuggest - I like MemoQ's LSC better Sep 10, 2010

Yes, maybe AutoSuggest has a good idea in it, but I don't quite see the use for any fast typer. When I tried it, I spent more time reading the suggestion and choosing a different one than I would have spent typing the word myself. Yes, of course I can make a typo, but that's what my reviewer is for. I agree though: a typo less at the source is always better.

What I really dislike about AutoSuggest is that you cannot add words on the fly. You have to run a process to have the database created, and the process takes a long time. Many people will lose part of its power because they don't have the time to keep running the process every couple of days.

I very much prefer MemoQ's ultra-fast suggestions of everything: matches, terminology, and concordance, including LSC suggestions. In large jobs, or recurrent jobs for a customer, you get suggested whole chunks of sentences on-screen for you to choose. You rarely hit the Concordance shortcut.

Artificially composed LSC translations (containing items from terminology and concordance) works beautifully if you have a reasonably populated terminology about your project. As Grzegorz, I add some 100-120 new terms every day to my project's termbases.

MemoQ is certainly saving me a lot of typing, but a huge amount of time in concordance work!

[Edited at 2010-09-10 05:29 GMT]


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:40
French to Polish
+ ...
CAT Battle - Adding terms... Sep 10, 2010

hhl wrote:

@GG - just some short comments in between:

"you should invest more time in it" - that's a critical aspect for me: Time is something I don't have. Most of my translations have deadlines between same day and 2-3 days.

It's almost exactly like me, normally I have a lot of urgent jobs.
The difference is the term adding in DV/MQ is hyperrapid.
In most cases, especially in DVX, where the fuzzy recognition works in a different manner, I don't even display the Add term form.
Two mouse moves and one shortcut (Shift+F11 in DVX, Ctrl+Q in MQ), it takes 2-3 seconds.
I.e. I have two kinds of dictionaries, speed optimized (mainly bilingual) and concept oriented (mainly multilingual), a more sophisticated, multilingual entry needs far more time than 3 seconds

And I'm pressured with jobs and internal management. The AutoSuggest Dictionary (I don't like acronyms creation works without interaction and time-consuming fine-tuning. Case sensivity is ok for me (German target).

Yes, I imagined it
Nonetheless, the German case is somehow isolated and all my languages pairs are penalized by this choice, so why I prefer the case conversion in DV/MQ (memoQ is more flexible here).

Cheers
GG


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hhl
Local time: 07:40
English to German
CAT Battle - AutoSuggest Dictionary and AutoText vs. Term Base Sep 10, 2010

A term base - in my opinion, and in the opinion of my collegues and clients - has mainly the function of a 2- or multi-language glossary; i.e. it should not at all contain terms or (parts of) phrases, that should be known by an experienced translator, but only such entries which are not common, and usually need some research, brainstorming and negotiation with the client. Thinking of adding 100+ terms a day really scares me from my point of view. As I understand, the DV and MemQ users use multiple term bases, where some are "seriously" used as such (a database of terms), while they use one other for entering repeated phrases (manually) - where Studio uses the AutoSuggest Dictionary.
From my working experience, I can say, that I'd prefer an automated "phrasing dictionary" generation (not at least, because the German inflections are also captured).
If there is some extraordinary document-specific, frequently repeated phrase/term in a long text, which is not in the AutoSuggest directory nor something, that I would consider to be a valuable term for the term base, I quickly add it to the AutoText entries.
The AutoSuggest Dictionary may take some time, however, it is generated unattended (e.g. during Lunch time), and - for me - I am still happy with the dictionary generated months ago.

I believe, that the pros and cons of the various workflows are very subjective and also depend on the type of translations, and the volume/client - and of course on your individual typing speed. My eyes are quite fast while my typing may be slower, so I almost "feel", which suggestion (in a list of may be 8) is the right one to choose, and this works faster for me than typing 10-30 characters free of errors.


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