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The effectiveness of AutoSuggest
Thread poster: SDL Community

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:08
Member (1970)
English
Jun 28, 2011

Dear all,

I am interested to get some feedback from you on how effective you find AutoSuggest and whether you use all of the features available. So for example, do you use an AutoSuggest, MultiTerm and AutoText... or only one or two of these resources?

Do you find the lists of hits presented as you type useful or should they be in a different order? For example, if you get:

Fotodrucker
Fotopapier
Fotos
Foto

Would it be bette
... See more
Dear all,

I am interested to get some feedback from you on how effective you find AutoSuggest and whether you use all of the features available. So for example, do you use an AutoSuggest, MultiTerm and AutoText... or only one or two of these resources?

Do you find the lists of hits presented as you type useful or should they be in a different order? For example, if you get:

Fotodrucker
Fotopapier
Fotos
Foto

Would it be better if they were presented like this:

Foto
Fotos
Fotopapier
Fotodrucker

All feedback is of interest.

Kind regards

Paul
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Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:08
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
feedback Jun 28, 2011

Dear Paul,

SDL Support wrote:

I am interested to get some feedback from you on how effective you find AutoSuggest and whether you use all of the features available. So for example, do you use an AutoSuggest, MultiTerm and AutoText... or only one or two of these resources?


I'm using AutoSuggest and MultiTerm. I don't use AutoText.

SDL Support wrote:
Do you find the lists of hits presented as you type useful or should they be in a different order?


I would strongly prefer to have the behaviour changed to sort the hits this way:

Foto
Fotos
Fotopapier
Fotodrucker

Thanks for bringing this up again, it's good to hear these issues are being worked on!

Regards,
Erik


 

Dragana Molnar M.A.  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 04:08
Italian to German
+ ...
my feedback Jun 28, 2011

Dear Paul,
generally I am using AutoSuggest and MultiTerm, in some cases I also use AutoText. And just like efreitag I would also prefer if the hits were sorted as follows:

Foto
Fotos
Fotopapier
Fotodrucker

What I am strongly missing is a possibility to EDIT the AutoSuggest dictionary directly without having to correct the TM and to generate a new dictionary from the edited TM.

Regards,
Dragana


 

Siegfried Armbruster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:08
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
Autosuggest and Multiterm Jun 28, 2011

I use autosuggest and Multiterm.

# 1 of my wishlist would be the option to delete and or edit Autosuggest entries directly in Studio


 

Rodion Shein  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 05:08
Member
English to Russian
+ ...
It works Jun 28, 2011

I find AutoSuggest really useful. If the dictionary is built on a large TM, even endings often match. I blindtype, so I can catch the suggestions from the very first letters. It accelerates the work process greatly. The most important thing is context — autosuggestions look really intelligent.

AutoText is useful for long unique words, e.g. client's brands or project specific long terms, so I use it extensively (even in MS Word).

I have MultiTerm always on: some client
... See more
I find AutoSuggest really useful. If the dictionary is built on a large TM, even endings often match. I blindtype, so I can catch the suggestions from the very first letters. It accelerates the work process greatly. The most important thing is context — autosuggestions look really intelligent.

AutoText is useful for long unique words, e.g. client's brands or project specific long terms, so I use it extensively (even in MS Word).

I have MultiTerm always on: some clients require that a term is translated this way; others prefer a different version of the same terminology. Therefore, it's convenient to have hints even for simple words.

Now to filtering:

Foto
Fotos
Fotopapier
Fotodrucker

This option is much better. Especially when it comes to synthetic languages like Russian or German. It's much easier just to add a couple of letters than to delete a couple of letters and then add a new ending.

While I was typing, I saw the response from Dragana Molnar.
I couldn't agree more: editing AutoSuggest dictionaries would be extremely helpful!

Paul, thank you for asking!


Cheers,

Rodion
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Grace Horsley  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:08
Member (2008)
Spanish to English
AutoSuggest Jun 28, 2011

Hi Paul,

I find that AutoSuggest saves me loads of time. In fact, for me it's one of the best features of Studio 2009. I also use MultiTerm and AutoText, but less so, and I usually just use AutoText for project-specific terms.

As for the order in which the hits are sorted, I think it would be good to include an option in the AutoSuggest settings so that you can decide on the order for yourself.

Also, as Dragana says, it would be really useful if we could ed
... See more
Hi Paul,

I find that AutoSuggest saves me loads of time. In fact, for me it's one of the best features of Studio 2009. I also use MultiTerm and AutoText, but less so, and I usually just use AutoText for project-specific terms.

As for the order in which the hits are sorted, I think it would be good to include an option in the AutoSuggest settings so that you can decide on the order for yourself.

Also, as Dragana says, it would be really useful if we could edit the AutoSuggest dictionary.

Regards,

Grace
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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:08
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
The order should depend on what is in the source Jun 28, 2011

SDL Support wrote:

Dear all,

I am interested to get some feedback from you on how effective you find AutoSuggest and whether you use all of the features available. So for example, do you use an AutoSuggest, MultiTerm and AutoText... or only one or two of these resources?

Do you find the lists of hits presented as you type useful or should they be in a different order? For example, if you get:

Fotodrucker
Fotopapier
Fotos
Foto

Would it be better if they were presented like this:

Foto
Fotos
Fotopapier
Fotodrucker

All feedback is of interest.

Kind regards

Paul


TBH I do not really understand why do you prefer the other way round?
If the source says "photo printer", the firstly presented order is fully alright.
Otherwise if the source just says "photo", the "Fotodrucker" would either not appear or appear lower in the list.

I use AS only with ASDs and termbases.
AutoText is IMHO pure waste of time - lot effort to create few entries which would then appear after the fourth letter AFAIR. The same can be achieved by adding a simple entry to a termbase - and this is done within seconds.

The AS feature is so good and made me used to it, that I am disappointed when nothing is suggested while writing an email or typing in Word


 

Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:08
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
explanation of the problem Jun 28, 2011

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

TBH I do not really understand why do you prefer the other way round?


Dear Jerzy,

in order make the issue more clear, let me quote what I've said in this discussion: http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/199558-studio:_change_sorting_of_autosuggest_entries.html

Erik Freitag wrote:

The matches do indeed seem to be presented in the order of decreasing length.

Let me just share some thoughts on this. Wouldn't it be better the other way round? Without really having thought this through to the end, I think the first match should be a very safe one, even if this means a sacrifice regarding its length.

My reasoning would be that a short, but safe match can be accepted by just pressing return. A longer match has a lower probability of being a 100% match, but if it is, it is worth a few keystrokes in order to select it, just because typing the whole match would mean more keystrokes. On the other hand, the benefits of a short match might be outweighed by the additional two, three, four, sometimes even five extra keystrokes I need in order to select it from the list.

In addition to that, imagine the following situation (which I'm making up, but I think it demonstrates my point):

Imagine the source text contains the word "opened". AS might suggest the following matches in this very order:

geöffneter
geöffneten
geöffnete
geöffnet

No matter which one I need in any given context, entering "geöffnet" into the target segment by one keystroke for which my right hand does not need to leave its position on the keyboard is a big help. I just add the correct inflective ending, if any at all, without disturbing the typing flow. This works in 100% of the cases (double meaning intended). Presently however, I need a good deal of luck so the case I need happens to be the one presented as the first in the list. For all other grammatical cases, I need to interrupt the flow of typing in order to position my hand on the up and down keys and back again.

I understand that this problem may be a special one for my language pairs, and especially for me as a quick typer. But as I said, this is just food for thought.



 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:08
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
@Erik Jun 28, 2011

This is a better example and in such case the order from shortest to the longest word would be justified.
But I would not like to see "photo" first if "Fotodrucker" is in the source - in that case "photo printer" should be the first hit.


 

Adam Bojan  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 04:08
Dutch to Polish
+ ...
AutoSuggest is the main reason... Jun 28, 2011

I still work mainly in Studio, not in a different CAT.
It would be great to be able to invert the order of suggestions, from the shortest to the longest, as in the examples above. It's almost always the last (shortest) suggestion that's useful.
Editing would also be very useful.
And don't forget the possibility of creating an AS dictionary from a smaller TM than 25.000 units. There are ways to avoid this limit (eg. I made a very usuful AS-dictionary from a 5.000 units TM by co
... See more
I still work mainly in Studio, not in a different CAT.
It would be great to be able to invert the order of suggestions, from the shortest to the longest, as in the examples above. It's almost always the last (shortest) suggestion that's useful.
Editing would also be very useful.
And don't forget the possibility of creating an AS dictionary from a smaller TM than 25.000 units. There are ways to avoid this limit (eg. I made a very usuful AS-dictionary from a 5.000 units TM by copying the TM 6 times and making meaningless different changes in 5 of them, then combined them into one, but it's not how it should be). Please make it possible to untick the limitation.
I always use AS and Multiterm. Autotext only once ever, but did't find it useful, it's easier to just add an " autotext-term" to the Multiterm term base.

I hope the new Studio 2011 will: improve the AS like we all suggest here, add many more options to the display filter and VERY IMPORTANT, improve the TM editor!
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Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:08
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
but this is exactly what is not happening Jun 28, 2011

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

This is a better example and in such case the order from shortest to the longest word would be justified.
But I would not like to see "photo" first if "Fotodrucker" is in the source - in that case "photo printer" should be the first hit.


Jerzy,

I understand your way of reasoning, but in my experience, this is exactly what is not happening, because it's not the probability of a match, but the length of the hit that determins the order.

Let's have a look at a case I have just now encountered in the project I'm being busy with:

Source segment (in Dutch, but this should do as an illustration): "Indien er een verdrag met een dochteronderneming binnen het concern is gesloten, is een toekenning mogelijk."

For "dochteronderneming" (="Tochterunternehmen"), AutoSuggest proposes the following hits in this very order:

Tochterunternehmen eines Tochterunternehmens
Tochterunternehmens
Tochtergesellschaft
Tochterunternehmen

This just doesn't make any sense.

In order to return to the "Fotodrucker" example, chances are that "Fotodruckerpatronen", "Fotodruckerpatrone" and "Fotodruckers" will all appear before "Fotodrucker".

[Edit: Jerzy, in your example you're using English as target language, so this sentence should read:

... that "photo printer cartridges", "photo printer cartridge", and "photo printers" will all appear before "photo printer".]

Again: The order should be determined by the probability of the individual hits, not by their length. If length it is, than at least for German as target language, hits should be sorted by increasing length.

I admit that in other language pairs, this problem might not be existent, so it might be a good idea to make it configurable.





[Bearbeitet am 2011-06-28 12:33 GMT]

[Bearbeitet am 2011-06-28 12:35 GMT]


 

MikeTrans
Germany
Local time: 04:08
Italian to German
+ ...
Autosuggest would be even better with AutoConcordance Jun 28, 2011

Hi Paul,

the Autosuggest feature in Studio is the one I'm most satisfied with: once you know what you have to translate, it will make you the longest possible suggestion and other shorter ones found in the Translation memory, Autotext and your Termbases if active.

IMO, It works at its best if you use the default settings of Studio (which also enables Autotext). Apart from my "Workaround" to create AS dictionaries from smaller TMs (see older post in this forum), I had n
... See more
Hi Paul,

the Autosuggest feature in Studio is the one I'm most satisfied with: once you know what you have to translate, it will make you the longest possible suggestion and other shorter ones found in the Translation memory, Autotext and your Termbases if active.

IMO, It works at its best if you use the default settings of Studio (which also enables Autotext). Apart from my "Workaround" to create AS dictionaries from smaller TMs (see older post in this forum), I had never any serious reasons to change the settings, also as Jerzy says, there's hardly any reason to use Autotext at all, so I just leave anything as is.

As for your direct question, yes, sometimes I have to scroll down the list because Autosuggest will suggest me terms that are definitely *not* in the source text, as the example of "printer cartridges" instead of "printer setup" found only in later rows. So, it would be fine if it's possible for Autosuggest to focus only on what's in the source text and also to "filter out" the unnecessary noise of similar (but not exact) termbase entries. Probably, when changing the setting for the Termbase to show only 100% matches, this will do the job, but then, you may miss important terms that are present, but flected etc. which would be a major inconvenient.
So I conclude that it would be fine to have a "Fuzzy Setting" also for the Autosuggest working much like the one of the Multiterm Termbases, and therefore controlling which terms will show up and how different they will be. Another - more easy - implementation would be that AS show the same terms only once, not showing them if Multiterm already does so.
Finally, I would like to warn about NOT messing up the Autosuggest feature by introducing changes that do not work 100% and *thoroughly* testing any behaviour before release! In other words: I'm more concerned about this feature not working anymore than any possible questionable changes!

Last year I have suggested to re-introduce the Auto-Concordance which is present in Trados 2007 as this would help the translator even more: by just seeing text in the Auto-Concordance, the translator could start typing relevant phrases and the Autosuggest would complete it. This means, the Autosuggest can be even helpful in the case of terms you *don't know* how to tanslate.

My suggestion had positive resonance even by your colleagues from the Support.

I'm also very satisfied to see SDL Support caring about user advices in this forum!
Greets,
Mike


[Edited at 2011-06-28 14:20 GMT]
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Adam Łobatiuk  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 04:08
Member (2009)
English to Polish
+ ...
Another idea Jun 28, 2011

I've already posted it to Ideas and on these forums somewhere, but I would really love AutoSuggest and Multiterm to provide the assembly feature, i.e. whenever there is no match, suggestions and terms would be inserted automatically.

This feature should be optional, because such suggestions don't always make sense, but they can be helpful as well. For example, imagine you're working on a software help or manual. You already have the UI terms in MultiTerm. You have also added typical
... See more
I've already posted it to Ideas and on these forums somewhere, but I would really love AutoSuggest and Multiterm to provide the assembly feature, i.e. whenever there is no match, suggestions and terms would be inserted automatically.

This feature should be optional, because such suggestions don't always make sense, but they can be helpful as well. For example, imagine you're working on a software help or manual. You already have the UI terms in MultiTerm. You have also added typical phrases like "and then click", "select" and so on. When you stumble upon a sentence like:

Select Options and then click View.

the translation is done for you.

This feature is available in Wordfast, and as far as I understand, also in MemoQ and DejaVu. I really wish it also was in Studio.
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Edric Barbosa Filho
Local time: 23:08
English to Portuguese
They're just fine, but editing ASD would be nice... Jun 28, 2011

Hi Paul

I use all those features, AutoText not so much, and I feel that ASD returns the suggestions in the most useful order (if not so, I am just lucky...).

The only thing I'd like to have is a way to correct a term in ASD directly: sometimes (travelling, for example), I don't have the original TM and I need to make a simple correction to a frequent hit, and having a way to change the term without the ne
... See more
Hi Paul

I use all those features, AutoText not so much, and I feel that ASD returns the suggestions in the most useful order (if not so, I am just lucky...).

The only thing I'd like to have is a way to correct a term in ASD directly: sometimes (travelling, for example), I don't have the original TM and I need to make a simple correction to a frequent hit, and having a way to change the term without the need to correct in the original TM and recreate the ASD would be a plus.

Cheers

Edric
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Eileen Cartoon  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:08
Italian to English
depends on how fast you type Jun 28, 2011

I have one translation studio I work for that sends me Autosuggest dictionaries for their work. Their TM is very large and I get a lot of hits but, to be perfectly honest, I type so fast that by the time I have recognized the short suggestions, I have already finished typing them anyway. When there are long suggestions, they can really save time. On the other hand, if there are too many variations, by the time I have used the arrows to scroll down the list for the right one, I could have typed i... See more
I have one translation studio I work for that sends me Autosuggest dictionaries for their work. Their TM is very large and I get a lot of hits but, to be perfectly honest, I type so fast that by the time I have recognized the short suggestions, I have already finished typing them anyway. When there are long suggestions, they can really save time. On the other hand, if there are too many variations, by the time I have used the arrows to scroll down the list for the right one, I could have typed it in. (Acutally, I imagine that's why the longer ones come first).

So for me, its a 50-50 question when it comes to saving time. However there is one very, very big plus: even if I type it, I get a quick look at what is used and this ensures better concordance right off the bat and this, in turn, makes reviewing faster after the rough draft has been finished.

Eileen
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