Pages in topic:   [1 2 3] >
How on earth can translating with Trados 2009 be faster than working directly in MS Word?
Thread poster: Richard Hill

Richard Hill  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 12:04
Member (2011)
Spanish to English
Jul 15, 2011

Hi everyone
I’ve been learning to use Trados lately, and have been asking a few questions here in the forum, and I have actually been enjoying the learning process, aligning documents and making TM's etc. and today, rather than just messing around, I actually started to do a Job in the Trados suite but I really don't see what makes it faster. I've been told that it saves time even when you don't have TM's built up but I really don't see how. Of course I understand that I'm slow through lack of experience and I imagine that'll change but all that messing around to get the tags to match the source, even using the drop down list, just takes so much up time. I had also thought that numbers and dates would be automatically translated but not so. It just seems so much quicker to translate in MS Word using find and replace and other tricks, and it's a much more friendly environment. I am at least average when it comes to learning to use software and like I say, I have been enjoying learning Trados so I really hope I’m missing something and that you can advise me on ways to make my work in Trados at least as fast as word or at least present some convincing arguments that things really do get that much quicker and that it's all worth it?
Thanks.
Rich


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Stefano Nicola D'Amato  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:04
Spanish to English
+ ...
I'm in the same boat as you are... Jul 15, 2011

Hey Rich,

We corresponded yesterday a little bit about AutoSuggest dictionaries.

I also am going through the process and since I am always looking to learn new things, I accepted this as a challenge.

Here is my theory about CAT tools in general. Again, this is my own personal opinion as a newcomer to the CAT environment.

It seems that CAT software can really be great for translation agencies or companies and is really effective for managing projects. Thus, project managers benefit by using these tools.

As translation work became outsourced more and more, some agencies require you to have a specific CAT tool in order to accept a job. This makes sense because they set up their projects in a certain CAT environment and in order for them to easily outsource their work, they want you to have this software as well.

Some companies have done great jobs at marketing their software and it got to a point where they have become leaders in the translation industry. In other words, if you read between the lines, you have to have this software to be a translator.

As expensive as the software costs, the support that the software developer seems to be very poor, and you only qualify for support if you purchase it. There appears to be no complete user manual in one document. You have to go finding out how to do things piece by piece and the majority of the support appears to come by users, like ourselves, who have become proficient in using the software. I must say that the people who take time to read through posts and help out other translators deserve a big applause because they are under no obligation to provide support. They do it as a selfless act with a genuine interest in helping others.

That being said, if you want workbooks and sample files to practice and learn how to use the software, these must be purchased (in three levels) and then you can claim that you are "certified." This is fine, but as we know new versions of software are released and you find yourself in a position to purchase an upgrade or be kept out of the loop and possibly labeled as not being an effective translator.

After you purchase software, spend more money to become certified, you then find out that, in some cases, from what I have read in forums, that agencies expect to pay you less because you invested time and money in a CAT tool. There have been a lot of discussions and articles about how agencies expect discounts if you use a CAT tool because you are not actually translating, but you are recycling translations that you've already done. This seems absolutely absurd! If you happen to save some time and keystrokes because something pops up from one of your translation memories, you still have to do something. It is not a fully automated process. You have to read, verify, edit, etc.

So, yeah, I am with you and am wondering how using a particular CAT tool can make you a "more efficient translator."

Good luck!


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Robin Salmon  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 03:04
German to English
+ ...
Trados the memory aid Jul 15, 2011

I have had Trados for ten years now and I use one translation memory which now has 720,000 translation units. If I come across a term I don't recognise, I always look it up in the Concordance first. Sometimes I'll find a transaltion dated 2003, for example, that I had completely forgotten. You can manage with Word if you have a good memory, but I haven't and so I always use Tarbos

Direct link Reply with quote
 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:04
English
SDL Support Jul 15, 2011

Hi,

Well, this is the second time already this morning that I have read we provide no support... and I'm hoping the day will get better..!

I thought it might be useful for you as newcomers to share this link that points you to quite a few places where we do provide help in learning to use the products. The ProZ forum is not the only place, although I definitely agree that there are many very helpful and experienced users here. I learn stuff every day the same way..!

How to get support for SDL Products Blog entry : http://tinyurl.com/SDLProductsSupport

I hope this will give you a few other places you can look too.

Regards

Paul


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 19:04
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
CAT, no CAT Jul 15, 2011

The CAT or no CAT discussion has happened about 2,134,873 times in translator portals. I think that the benefits of a CAT tool are evident for anyone who works in a systematic way or with jobs that are related along time.

In my opinion, your problem could be that for you Trados is a synonym for "CAT tool". There are other excellent tools in the market that react very quickly and have faster methods to accomplish the task of translating with translation memories, termbases, and other resources. I reckon it would be a good idea to research the market and see some videos about other tools.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Tomi Dobaj
Slovenia
Local time: 19:04
Member (2007)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
Once you'll start using your CAT properly you will never go back.. Jul 15, 2011

Even if overlooking all the benefits of working with TMs and termbases (you can save and recall any string that might get repeated in text within seconds, remember?), even only the segmentation and keyboard access (tags!) save me at least 40% of the translation time..

My tip for speeding up is - modify all the keyboard shortcuts of the commands you are using to your liking and then use them consistently so to learn them by heart.

Learn to ignore the mouse persistently as everything can be done on a brain+keyboard autocombo..! : )



The TM gets more and more useful when it grows too, and the termbase funciton is priceless in all tech and admin texts - you can save long sentences there too...

All best!
T.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

JaneD  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 19:04
Member (2009)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Don't type it, autosuggest it Jul 15, 2011

Here's one way that Studio is *much* quicker than working in Word - the autosuggest feature. This is the thing that suggests words as you type, based on matches in the segment compared to your TM. So that instead of having to type a complete word, you start typing and then press enter to select. You can add parts of sentences to the TM to avoid having to retype things repeatedly within a document. I find this particularly useful for long documents which have the same phrases over and over in different sections, or even simply for words which I find hard to type.

That said, it depends on what you are translating - most fiction translators seem to agree that CAT tools are of limited use to them.

And of course this is an ongoing discussion, as Tomas says (though I think he underestimates the number of times it has been mentioned). Why can't we all just agree to disagree and move on to something else?!

Jane


Direct link Reply with quote
 

neilmac  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 19:04
Spanish to English
+ ...
Am I allowed to gloat? Jul 15, 2011

Probably not. They do say there is no such thing as a free lunch.

However, as a non-user of Trados, I can't help feeling a little schadenfreude (with or without a capital S) that what Spanish translation students refer to as "la maquina de hacer dinero" (the money-making machine) has feet of clay, at least in the beginning.

I use Wordfast and it's cheaper, more user friendly and to a certain extent compatible (I have some clients who use Trados but are happy to accept TMs from or jobs done with WF).

My colleagues who do use Trados tell me that it's worth it once you get over the learning curve and are used to all its intricacies, but I still enjoy hearing them have a collective whinge about the latest issue/bug/version whenever we meet.

Best of luck anyway!

Caveat emptor


Direct link Reply with quote
 

neilmac  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 19:04
Spanish to English
+ ...
The quid of the question Jul 15, 2011

Stefano D'Amato wrote:


It seems that CAT software can really be great for translation agencies or companies and is really effective for managing projects. Thus, project managers benefit by using these tools.

As translation work became outsourced more and more, some agencies require you to have a specific CAT tool in order to accept a job. This makes sense because they set up their projects in a certain CAT environment and in order for them to easily outsource their work, they want you to have this software as well.
...
So, yeah, I am with you and am wondering how using a particular CAT tool can make you a "more efficient translator."

Good luck!


Totally agree. And hats off to Stefano for taking so much time and effort to explain the scenario so well and helping out.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Sergei Tumanov  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:04
English to Russian
+ ...
If it is your first 'real' translation with Trados Jul 15, 2011

the difference is not that obvious in the beginning.

Let's imagine the situation that some newbie tries using a computer bought 3 days ago to write a letter.

The question will be obviously reworded -- "How on earth can writing a letter with computer be faster than writing directly on the paper?"

No printers, no cables, no strange buttons, .... I just take a pen or pencil and write what I want, when I want ... No electricity required....

++

I think you need some time to get used to it.

[Edited at 2011-07-15 11:13 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Evonymus (Ewa Kazmierczak)  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 19:04
English to Polish
+ ...
other CATs Jul 15, 2011

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
In my opinion, your problem could be that for you Trados is a synonym for "CAT tool". There are other excellent tools in the market that react very quickly and have faster methods to accomplish the task of translating with translation memories, termbases, and other resources.


exactly and let me add - user friendly even for an IT-handicap like me:)


Direct link Reply with quote
 
MikeTrans
Germany
Local time: 19:04
Member (2005)
Italian to German
+ ...
How long did you take? Jul 15, 2011

rich,

I'm feeling with you as for the complexity of Studio. But: How long did you take to learn all complex functions in MS Word that are 'more' of a help than for the average user?
I'm using MS Word for more than 15 years. 2 days ago I've just learned the existance of a Search/Replace procedure that I was never aware of.
Oh well, I won't learn everything to type a simple letter and nothing has changed this decision of mine.

The same goes with Studio: Don't expect to learn all 'secrets' at once. You must take the necessary time.

As for trouble-related issues, I think that the KB refered by Paul is really the quickest method to solve issues, but don't expect to find here elaborated tips on how to use the software. Instead, there are a lot of useful Training videos available, just to show you live what you can do.

A good place to look at is also:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/TW_users/messages

Greets,
Mike

[Edited at 2011-07-15 14:17 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Laurent KRAULAND  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 19:04
French to German
+ ...
+1 Jul 15, 2011

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

The CAT or no CAT discussion has happened about 2,134,873 times in translator portals. I think that the benefits of a CAT tool are evident for anyone who works in a systematic way or with jobs that are related along time.

In my opinion, your problem could be that for you Trados is a synonym for "CAT tool". There are other excellent tools in the market that react very quickly and have faster methods to accomplish the task of translating with translation memories, termbases, and other resources. I reckon it would be a good idea to research the market and see some videos about other tools.


+1 on Tomás... as long as the source text is editable in some way that will be "digested" by a CAT/TEnT.

Otherwise useless (especially if you work with files consisting of scanned fax outputs like I do).

ETA: OpenOffice may be free software, but it (Writer) will also suggest inserting previously used terms - which is very useful in the scenario I described above under Otherwise useless.



[Edited at 2011-07-15 14:49 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Stefano Nicola D'Amato  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:04
Spanish to English
+ ...
Is it necessary to comment on every post? Jul 15, 2011

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

The CAT or no CAT discussion has happened about 2,134,873 times in translator portals. I think that the benefits of a CAT tool are evident for anyone who works in a systematic way or with jobs that are related along time.

In my opinion, your problem could be that for you Trados is a synonym for "CAT tool". There are other excellent tools in the market that react very quickly and have faster methods to accomplish the task of translating with translation memories, termbases, and other resources. I reckon it would be a good idea to research the market and see some videos about other tools.


The beauty of forums is that they appear to be a a place where someone who has a question can easily go to research something or post a question.

There is no doubt that some topics have been discussed 2,134,873 times.

Since we are all at different stages, searching for something on a forum can be quite a task and often confusing. Some threads are created from other threads. Some threads refer to out-dated versions of software. Some threads are contain responses from more experienced users. I think you get the picture.

While I agree that something should not be posted and re-posted over two million, one hundred thirty-four thousand, eight hundred and seventy-three times, sometimes a user feels the need to create a new thread.

I cannot speak for others, but when I want to research something in the forums, I first do a search. I read the results. If I notice that the topic was discussed back in 2003, this may or not be still relevant. As my level of experience and expertise may not be the same as another user, I may feel the need to post a new thread.

The reply above, which is quick to point out "my problem" is that Trados is a synonym for CAT Tool. In my reply to the original question on July 14th, at 0005 (GMT -4), I can not find one instance where I mentioned the word "Trados" in my post. Perhaps I am mistaken and if you can point this out to me, I will stand corrected.

I will now ask a question. Why do some users feel the necessity to comment on each and every post? If it is a thread that you have read over two million times, is it really necessary for you to read the thread? The choice or not whether to read and/or reply to a thread is up to you. If you have nothing constructive to contribute or simply do not want to reply to a thread, why bother replying? Is it just so you can be seen as a "leader" in the forums?

There are MANY people who reply that provide valuable insight and help. This is what I call selfless collaboration. I would like to thank all of you who are helpful to us newbies. Your time is valuable and I, personally, understand it. That is why I appreciate your responses and I'll remember that you gave me a suggestion or some guidance.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Richard Hill  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 12:04
Member (2011)
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER
Only one TM Jul 15, 2011

Robin Salmon wrote:

I use one translation memory which now has 720,000 translation units.


Hi Robin

Thanks for the response. Do you think that there's no advantage to having different TM's for different fields?


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Pages in topic:   [1 2 3] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

How on earth can translating with Trados 2009 be faster than working directly in MS Word?

Advanced search







TM-Town
Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business

Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.

More info »
BaccS – Business Accounting Software
Modern desktop project management for freelance translators

BaccS makes it easy for translators to manage their projects, schedule tasks, create invoices, and view highly customizable reports. User-friendly, ProZ.com integration, community-driven development – a few reasons BaccS is trusted by translators!

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search