Can I select 2 source languages in studio 2009
Thread poster: Rosemary Vandertop

Rosemary Vandertop  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:21
Dutch to English
Jul 27, 2011

My Studio 2009 memory for a particular client is NL-EN (Dutch-English) but regularly the client sends me ttx fles in BE-EN (Belgian Dutch to English) to translate. This means I have to work with 2 memories for 1 client, sometimes within 1 project, and it is very confusing and laborious to have to cut a project in two for each language combination and export/reimport etc for each memory with over 100,000 units. Is there a way I can ask Studio 2009 to accept both source languages and to update bot... See more
My Studio 2009 memory for a particular client is NL-EN (Dutch-English) but regularly the client sends me ttx fles in BE-EN (Belgian Dutch to English) to translate. This means I have to work with 2 memories for 1 client, sometimes within 1 project, and it is very confusing and laborious to have to cut a project in two for each language combination and export/reimport etc for each memory with over 100,000 units. Is there a way I can ask Studio 2009 to accept both source languages and to update both memories? Or use just 1 general memory for both source languages?Collapse


 

Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:21
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Known issue Jul 27, 2011

Dear Rosemary,

I've made this complaint myself before and heard it from others as well, to no avail so far.

Studio should differentiate between different language flavours for the target language only. The distinction should not be made for the source language.

I don't know a better solution to your problem than what you already suggested. Hopefully, someone elso does...

Regards,
Erik


 

FarkasAndras  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:21
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Hack? Jul 27, 2011

I'm not intimately familiar with ttx files, but it should be pretty easy to change the language codes in the ttx with search and replace. Obviously, you'd need to put the entire "language" tag in the search expression to make sure there is no collateral damage.
Of course your client might not like that... but if they're sending mixed ttx files, that's probably not on purpose so they likely won't care.
Other than that, you could ask your client to pick a language variant and stick to
... See more
I'm not intimately familiar with ttx files, but it should be pretty easy to change the language codes in the ttx with search and replace. Obviously, you'd need to put the entire "language" tag in the search expression to make sure there is no collateral damage.
Of course your client might not like that... but if they're sending mixed ttx files, that's probably not on purpose so they likely won't care.
Other than that, you could ask your client to pick a language variant and stick to it.
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Rosemary Vandertop  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:21
Dutch to English
TOPIC STARTER
2 source languages Jul 27, 2011

Thank you for your response. I have the additional problem that I do not have Tag Editor (only Studio 2009). Changing the language codes (after each project) would probably be just as much work...

 

Michael Grant
Japan
Local time: 07:21
Japanese to English
Not in Studio 2009...but maybe in 2007? Jul 28, 2011

I found what appear to be conflicting knowledge base articles about this subject. Perhaps the contradiction is resolved if they are referring to Studio 2007 and Studio 2009...?

First(referring to Studio 2007???):
We consider a translation memory with one source language and more than one target language to be a multilingual translation memory. Although it is technically possible to create multilingual translation memories, in most cases this is not advisable. Maintaining multilingual databases requires more effort. Bilingual translation memories can always be turned into multilingual memories if required later on.


http://kb.sdl.com/display/2/kb/article.aspx?aid=1507&n=1&docid=1599

Then(referring to 2009):

The new SDL Trados Studio 2009 language pair technology is designed to only support bilingual translation memories. It is therefore not possible to open multilingual Translation Memories directly in SDL Trados Studio 2009.


http://kb.sdl.com/display/2/kb/article.aspx?aid=2611&n=1&docid=3608

I assume that if you try to open a multilingual memory created in Translator's Workbench with Studio 2009 that it will force you to create separate bilingual translation memories for each language pair...but I haven't tried this.

More research is required...

MGrant

[Edited at 2011-07-28 01:19 GMT]


 

Michael Grant
Japan
Local time: 07:21
Japanese to English
Looks like no-go in Studio 2009! Jul 28, 2011

More research is required...


Well, I created a multilingual memory in Translator's Workbench, but there does not seem to be any way to import that into Studio 2009 without dividing it up by language pair...It forces you to create multiple, bilingual memories...

MGrant


 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:21
Member (1970)
English
On KB articles and ML TMs Jul 28, 2011

Hi,

It's probably better just to give the KB article number as a reference and then anyone can go here:

http://kb.sdl.com

Then type the article number into the search box and find it straight away. If you copy the url from the browser this will not work as it is only a session url for you. The correct syntax if you want to provide a url is this:

... See more
Hi,

It's probably better just to give the KB article number as a reference and then anyone can go here:

http://kb.sdl.com

Then type the article number into the search box and find it straight away. If you copy the url from the browser this will not work as it is only a session url for you. The correct syntax if you want to provide a url is this:

http://kb.sdl.com/article.aspx?article=XXXX&p=1

Where xxxx is the article KB number. So in this case, I think you were referring to these ones:

Creating Multilingual Translation Memories
http://kb.sdl.com/article.aspx?article=1507&p=1

... actually I have no idea what the second one was

On the actual creation. Even in 2007 where we allowed multilingual capability it was still only one source to multiple target and not the other way around, so still not providing the solution Rosemary was asking for.

In 2009 we currently treat sublanguages as if they were completely different languages and this is because we base various functions, such as autolocalization, on the MS culture sets here where there is the potential for languages to be treated differently based on their sub-language:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb896001.aspx

Sometimes this is not the case and they are often the same, but some languages do differ slightly (Arabic, Chinese, French, German to just pick out four from a quick inspection).

Having said this there are enhancements that could be made to the way we handle these things, and we do have some things on the development waiting list, but for now we do not provide for multilingual TMs with multiple source segments.

I think Farkas was correct when he said that the Client should really try to be more consistent, at least within the same Project.

Regards

Paul
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FarkasAndras  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:21
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Multilingual Jul 28, 2011

Michael Grant wrote:

I assume that if you try to open a multilingual memory created in Translator's Workbench with Studio 2009 that it will force you to create separate bilingual translation memories for each language pair...but I haven't tried this.

More research is required...


That's probably not the direction you want to take your research.
Multilingual TMs are designed for multilingual projects, for instance, where the same set of French texts is translated into both Italian and German. Obviously, when you're translating into German, you don't want to get TM hits from the Italian part of the TM, so Trados hides those target segments from you. (At least that's how I understand it.) I'm sure you can see how this wouldn't work for your situation.

BTW as far as I know, Studio Freelance can't handle multilingual TMs. The Professional(?) version can; this is one of the ways they cripple the Freelance version to force agencies to shell out for the expensive pro licences.


 

Adam Łobatiuk  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 23:21
Member (2009)
English to Polish
+ ...
It is easy Jul 28, 2011

FarkasAndras wrote:

I'm not intimately familiar with ttx files, but it should be pretty easy to change the language codes in the ttx with search and replace. Obviously, you'd need to put the entire "language" tag in the search expression to make sure there is no collateral damage.


But just to make things clearer, you do that in Notepad or another text editor. Open your ttx file in Notepad and replace, for example, "BE-NL" with "NL-NL" or whatever the specific codes are (do include the quotes, just to be safe).


 

Michael Grant
Japan
Local time: 07:21
Japanese to English
FYI Jul 28, 2011

The first Article ID was: 1507 (Creating Multilingual Translation Memories)

The second Article ID was: 2611 (Can I open my SDLX Multilingual memories in SDL Trados Studio 2009?)

From now on I'll give just the article number, thanks for your input!

MGrant


 

FarkasAndras  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:21
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Include more than the quotes Jul 28, 2011

Adam Łobatiuk wrote:

FarkasAndras wrote:

I'm not intimately familiar with ttx files, but it should be pretty easy to change the language codes in the ttx with search and replace. Obviously, you'd need to put the entire "language" tag in the search expression to make sure there is no collateral damage.


But just to make things clearer, you do that in Notepad or another text editor. Open your ttx file in Notepad and replace, for example, "BE-NL" with "NL-NL" or whatever the specific codes are (do include the quotes, just to be safe).


That's not careful enough for my tastes. There could be other instances of "BE-NL", say, in the text itself. The odds are minute, but it's possible. It's also worth checking what tags you're changing so you know what you're getting into.
I'd open the ttx in Notepad++, replace <Tuv Lang="BE-NL"> with <Tuv Lang="NL-NL"> and then look for any remaining instances of "BE-NL". In all likelyhood, there will be only one: SourceLanguage="BE-NL" (or TargetLanguage="BE-NL"). Replace that, and if there are no more left, save the file.
If this needs to be done regularly on many files, it would be easy to automate this with sed or perl. Then you can just click your convert_langcodes.exe, specify the input ttx file(s) and you're ready to translate.


 

Fleur Brooke  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:21
German to English
+ ...
Workaround to the dual source lang issue Oct 20, 2011

Dear Rosemary,
I often find myself in a similar position where a client creates ttx's for me in GB or US English with no real sense of consistency. The workaround mentioned in a couple of the responses above works for me too. Here's the step by step:

1. Take a backup of your original ttx!!
2. In Explorer, open the working ttx in Notepad.
It will look horrendous, but if you scroll through, you will notice the language tags - in my case, for example, Fr-FR and EN-GB.
... See more
Dear Rosemary,
I often find myself in a similar position where a client creates ttx's for me in GB or US English with no real sense of consistency. The workaround mentioned in a couple of the responses above works for me too. Here's the step by step:

1. Take a backup of your original ttx!!
2. In Explorer, open the working ttx in Notepad.
It will look horrendous, but if you scroll through, you will notice the language tags - in my case, for example, Fr-FR and EN-GB. You can change a language flavour using Find/Replace .. in my case, I might change the EN-GB to EN-US

3. In the Edit menu of Notepad, select Find/Replace
4. In find, enter the language flavour you want to change
5. In Replace with, enter the language flavour you want to change to.

Using Replace All, you can do this with one click.

6. Save
7. Reopen the ttx in Studio using the desired TM.

Works for me! Good luck

- Fleur.

[Edited at 2011-10-20 13:14 GMT]
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Marinus Vesseur  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 14:21
English to Dutch
+ ...
Language variant mess in SDL Studio Dec 19, 2011

Sorry, but I think it was plain stupid to make language variants completely different languages. How many variants of English are there? So far I've had to deal with 4. That means I have had to create AND maintain 4 main TMs (and if you keep a number of separate TMs for separate fields, multiply it by that number). Even if you keep all your client's TMs separate, it's not always possible to demand from them to use one language variant only. That suggestion seems strangely unrealistic.
... See more
Sorry, but I think it was plain stupid to make language variants completely different languages. How many variants of English are there? So far I've had to deal with 4. That means I have had to create AND maintain 4 main TMs (and if you keep a number of separate TMs for separate fields, multiply it by that number). Even if you keep all your client's TMs separate, it's not always possible to demand from them to use one language variant only. That suggestion seems strangely unrealistic.

I do hope that this problem has been dealt with in Studio 2011.
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SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:21
Member (1970)
English
Language Variants Dec 20, 2011

Marinus Vesseur wrote:

Sorry, but I think it was plain stupid to make language variants completely different languages. How many variants of English are there? So far I've had to deal with 4. That means I have had to create AND maintain 4 main TMs (and if you keep a number of separate TMs for separate fields, multiply it by that number). Even if you keep all your client's TMs separate, it's not always possible to demand from them to use one language variant only. That suggestion seems strangely unrealistic.

I do hope that this problem has been dealt with in Studio 2011.



Hello Marinus,

We support 16 variants of English. You see all the flavours here:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb896001.aspx

I do completely agree that we should allow lookup irrespective of sublanguage, and maybe even of language (although probably less useful), but there are good reasons based on the way Studio is designed to work for not allowing you to mix them.

I also think it would be useful to have an option allowing a user to update a TM of a different variant if they really want to, but this would inevitably lead to some issues at sometime because of the automated handling of language variants based on the culture sets in the links above.

Studio is not designed to be a free for all, and for the majority of users this is a helpful aspect of the tool rather than a hindrance. For experienced users who like to have full control over the things they do, and they understand the impact of what they are doing, it is an irritation as we often see in this forum.

I think there will be some relaxation in a future release, but it will still have to be controlled, and I can't put a date on this yet.

Regards

Paul


 


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