Mysterious additional tags and segments and missing non-breaking hyphens in Studio 2009
Thread poster: Peter Nicholson

Peter Nicholson  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 13:34
Polish to English
Sep 8, 2011

Could anyone help me with some problems I am having with Trados Studio 2009? Please right-click this link:

http://othertongues.my.proz.com/trados/test.sdlxliff

then save the small sdlxliff file and open it in Studio. I wonder if you find the same problems as I do.

1. In segment 1, the first reference to the author Denner is broken up (Den n ner) and separated by tags. In segment 2, the second reference to the same file (Denner 2008) is not broken up, neither is the reference to Denner 2009 in segment 3. Why is this?
2. The path to the file for Zhang 2010 is found in segment 8. But it is repeated in segment 9. I am currently faced with multiple examples of this. Where are these additional (sometimes truncated) paths coming from?
3. In segment 4, there are four additional tags which are not present in the original file: OLE_LINK1 & 2 open and close. What are these and where have they come from?
4. The links are to pdf files contained in a folder named ‘References’. I want to add another similar link to the target text, even though it is not in the source text. Does anyone know how I can do this in Studio, or can this only be done in Word as part of the pre- or post-editing necessary with Studio? (Dare I express the wish to be able to edit the source text in Studio?)
5. In segment 4, there should be two non-breaking hyphens (Ma, 2010-2 and 6-karboksyfluoresceina), but they are not visible. Why is this?

Try copying all source to target and saving as a .doc, and compare it with the original .doc:

http://othertongues.my.proz.com/trados/test.doc

Pressing Alt + F9 to show the field codes does not reveal any problems, and the links to the files in the references folder are all working.

Thanks in advance for your help.


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:34
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
There are bookmarks in your docum,ent Sep 8, 2011

So unfortunately you cannot do very much about it.
But just a simple opening in OpenOffice and saving again as doc removes those.
What must remain, are formatting for hyperlinks.
Same you can achieve by using Word 2007.
To be able to deal with such situations it would be a great advantage to learn how formatting works (in Word AND in other formats, where tags must be used, like HTML) and understanding tags. For the latter just show the full tag text - they will tell you what they do, quite exactly in Trados, compared to other tools.


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Peter Nicholson  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 13:34
Polish to English
TOPIC STARTER
What are bookmarks and how can I see them? Sep 8, 2011

Thanks for your help, Jerzy, but I do not understand your answer. I do not know what you mean by bookmarks. How can I display them? In the sample document test.doc, I set up all the hyperlinks myself in Word 2007. So how come there are bookmarks in the first Den n er and not in the other two Denners? In any case, this doesn't explain the repeated path in segment 9 or the invisible non-breaking hyphens.

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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:34
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Invisible non-breaking hyphens are indeed "not visible" in Studio Sep 8, 2011

I will report that to SDL development.
As for your question, what bookmarks are: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/add-or-delete-bookmarks-HP001226532.aspx
Please understand, that this is not a forum for teaching, but for help.
Is this document created completely by yourself? May I then see the real source?


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Adam Łobatiuk  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 13:34
Member (2009)
English to Polish
+ ...
Bookmarks Sep 8, 2011

There are bookmarks in your document, and you can see them in Word by going to the Insert tab, selecting Bookmark in the Link group, and then playing with the options and checkboxes in the dialogue box (selecting Location and Hidden bookmarks should work). When "_Hlt303155011" displays, select it and choose Go to. It will go to the first instance of Denner. The other two bookmarks are what you're asking about in question 3.

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Peter Nicholson  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 13:34
Polish to English
TOPIC STARTER
What about Zhang 2010? Sep 8, 2011

Thank you, Jerzy, for the link to Microsoft with the information about how to display bookmarks. Thank you, too, Adam, for the hint on displaying hidden bookmarks. Now I can see them. Unfortunately, I cannot send anyone the original document, which came from my client, but I can confirm that it is full of hidden bookmarks. It is hard to see what purpose they serve, given their locations. I set up the links to the references. The resultant version has only four bookmarks, so I must have unknowingly deleted the others, but evidently incorporated one of the hidden bookmarks into the first Denner.

All of this still does not explain the existence of segment 9 and the repeated path to the reference Zhang 2010. There are no bookmarks, hidden or otherwise, in this case. The full document has many examples of extra segments with repeated full or truncated paths, but no bookmarks are involved. So I still cannot explain the existence of segment 9.

Another question is why bookmarks cannot be displayed and edited directly in Studio? Or perhaps they can?

And what about setting up a link in the target text directly in Studio?


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:34
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
I do not have the repeated path when I open the doc file... Sep 8, 2011

However I opened it in Studio 2011.
When opening in Studio 2009 it appears.
There must be an error somewhere, but I cannot really tell where.

When there is no hyperlink in the source file you will not be able to insert it in Studio. Why should Studio allow you to modify the document in that way? This is not a purpose of ANY CAT tool.

As for the bookmarks - they ARE displayed in Studio. Unfortunately you do not dare to miss them in the translation, as otherwise no target text will be produced.
To reduce the number of extracted bookmark open the source file in Word 2007/2010, save in the native format there, close, reopen and save as Word 2003. This will significantly reduce the number of unnecessary bookmarks.
If you need to know why they are there, ask the customer - only he can know the purpose.


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Peter Nicholson  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 13:34
Polish to English
TOPIC STARTER
You are right, they are displayed Sep 8, 2011

Thank you, Jerzy, you are right. Of course the bookmarks are displayed in Studio - as tags. And they can simply be omitted in the target text. So instead of Den n er with the additional tags, I just have Denner, and the hyperlink in the doc which I save from this works perfectly. I also did not reproduce the OLE tags in the target text, and no problems have resulted (assuming the client does not need them).

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Adam Łobatiuk  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 13:34
Member (2009)
English to Polish
+ ...
Repeated path to the reference Zhang 2010 Sep 8, 2011

This doesn't solve the problem, but at least we know it's not Studio's fault:

When you save your doc as RTF and then open it as text, you'll see that the code for the hyperlink contains a redundant string. Compare:

{\field\flddirty{\*\fldinst {\rtlch\fcs1 \af0 \ltrch\fcs0 \i\lang1045\langfe1033\langnp1045\insrsid7157665\charrsid14106322 \hich\af37\dbch\af37\loch\f37 HYPERLINK "References/Yu%20P.%20-%202007.pdf" }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af0 \ltrch\fcs0

and

{\field\flddirty{\*\fldinst {\rtlch\fcs1 \af0 \ltrch\fcs0 \i\lang1045\langfe1033\langnp1045\insrsid7157665\charrsid14106322 \hich\af37\dbch\af37\loch\f37 \hich\af37\dbch\af37\loch\f37 HYPERLINK "References/Zhang%20P.%20-%202010.pdf" }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af0

i.e. poor Zhang has this part repeated: \hich\af37\dbch\af37\loch\f37

I have no idea why that happened or what it does, but apparently this causes the 2 versions of Studio to handle the link in different ways. Tag Editor displays the link once, but the tag text is slightly different (the space preceding HYPERLINK is separated).

As far as inserting links in Studio is concerned, I don't think it's possible - as you can see, Studio displays them as tags and then as separate segments that you would need to add.


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Peter Nicholson  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 13:34
Polish to English
TOPIC STARTER
Pre-editing for Studio in OpenOffice and rtf Sep 8, 2011

I should have thought the advantages of being able to add tags, change font size, add hyperlinks etc to the target text (not to mention the source text) directly in Studio would be obvious to anyone.

Thank you, Adam, for your valuable hint. At least I can see the redundant strings in rtf, if not in doc. These redundant strings must be the remains of the client's own hyperlinks, which I deleted and replaced, as they didn't work (path was, for example: "C:\\Users\\User\\AppData\\Local\\Microsoft\\Windows\\Temporary Internet Files\\Content.IE5\\DX4OXV2Q\\LITERATURA\\Denner J. - 2008.pdf").


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:34
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
You are indeed mixing things up Sep 8, 2011

Peter Nicholson wrote:

I should have thought the advantages of being able to add tags, change font size, add hyperlinks etc to the target text (not to mention the source text) directly in Studio would be obvious to anyone.

While the possibility to edit the source is highly desirable indeed and might come in some future release, if I am informed well, so are the other things you assume to be desirable for everyone completely out of place in ANY CAT tool.
The purpose of a CAT tool is to reproduce the source text in target language WITHOUT any additional changes, this includes also no changes to either font type or size, font color, layout and so on. Anything else is post-editing.
Adding tags for some purposes is however still possible - for example to make text italic or put upper or lower index or some other special features.
What you propose would be a combination of a CAT tool and post editing tool - but how do you want to post edit in an environment, where you do NOT see the final result? Please remember, that Word is by far not the only format translatable in CAT. And while it is quite easy to assume, most of us do have Word (but really not all), it is also quite easy to assume, that most of us will NOT have QuarkXPress or InDesign and other specific tools.


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Mysterious additional tags and segments and missing non-breaking hyphens in Studio 2009

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