Why no "Smart Cutting and Pasting" like in Word?
Thread poster: Akke Wagenaar

Akke Wagenaar  Identity Verified
Senegal
Local time: 12:46
Member (2011)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Oct 19, 2011

Dear Trados developers/product team and co-proz.commers,

I am new with SDL Trados (2009->2011) since a couple of months and already happily using the software, discovering the endless possibilities for more speed and better quality of my translations.

That said, I would like to give you a couple of observations:
-the Option Smart Cutting & Pasting, as it is called in Word, allows me to quickly change word orders in sentences. It's an option I often use because Dutch has a much different word order than English, French and German, for example. So I have to correct the word order in nearly every pre-translated (TM/AT) segment in order to get a good writing style. And the fastest way to do that is to drag and drop the misplaced word, but when I do that in Trados, the word is glued to the previous word .... aaaarrrrggghhh!!!

WHY oh WHY, SDL Trados?

It can't be that difficult to integrate this Option, only one of many features * that make working in Word like driving a luxury Mercedes and make working in Trados Studio like ... riding a horsewagon! **

*(The other features Trados is missing that Word has are, amongst many: in Word I can quickly zoom in/out my view, change fonttype and size, background color - not everybody has good eyes - , the place on my screen where I work (I prefer the left center on my rather wide laptop screen, but in Trados it's in the lower right corner of the screen where the cursor has to go and my neck is aching terribly. In short THE AWKWARD AND UNERGONOMIC INTERFACE DESIGN of SDL Trados Studio. But I will make separate postings for all those items because maybe they can be adapted but I haven't found out how yet.)
**In the evening my eyes, back and neck are sore after a day of working in SDL Trados. Not so in Word.


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Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 13:46
English to Czech
+ ...
Work with the spaces Oct 19, 2011

akkefall wrote:
And the fastest way to do that is to drag and drop the misplaced word, but when I do that in Trados, the word is glued to the previous word .... aaaarrrrggghhh!!!


Simply highlight the space before or after the word too.

in Word I can quickly zoom in/out my view, change fonttype and size, background color - not everybody has good eyes -

Agree, there could be a more elegant way than to adapt the font size in the Settings.

...the place on my screen where I work (I prefer the left center on my rather wide laptop screen, but in Trados it's in the lower right corner of the screen where the cursor has to go and my neck is aching terribly.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here.

In short THE AWKWARD AND UNERGONOMIC INTERFACE DESIGN of SDL Trados Studio.

In fact, the working environment is fully customizable. You can move the individual panes around your screen(s) as you wish. I don't think at all that Studio's design is unergonomic. Maybe a matter of preference.

[Upraveno: 2011-10-19 19:50 GMT]


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Akke Wagenaar  Identity Verified
Senegal
Local time: 12:46
Member (2011)
English to Dutch
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Highlighting is not smart cutting and pasting Oct 20, 2011

In Dutch, you may have a word with a blank on the left and none on the right, like you see here with the word 'right'. Now try to move the word 'right' to just before 'blank' in SDL and try to do the same in Word. In SDL the blank that should be inserted on the right of 'right' is missing, because there was a comma, and I have to add it manually. In Word the blanks are inserted/deleted automatically wherever they belong/do not belong (before comma's, exclamation marks etc.) plus I do not have to highlight the word, I can just doubleclick on it. It's about 5 times faster in Word.

But with this message I was really hoping someone from SDL would answer. Because I would like to know why a rather expensive software for people who are editing large amounts of text on a daily base does not contain a simple feature like smart cutting and pasting. It's like having power steering on your car. Would you buy a car with no power steering?

[Edited at 2011-10-21 17:18 GMT]


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Shankaran Viswanathan  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 18:16
French to English
+ ...
Missing features Oct 21, 2011

While I do not understand the nuances of Dutch language, it seems obvious to me that several MS Word features that will make life easier for translators is missing from Trados.

One such instance is paste without format i.e. as simple text.

I also note that there is no Trados support member commenting on this thread. Usually they are keen to jump in when there is something affecting their sales

Vishwa
Dehradun, India


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Epameinondas Soufleros  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 14:46
Member (2008)
English to Greek
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Translators type a lot. Why can't CAT companies understand it? Oct 21, 2011

I couldn't agree more that there are several "missing features", as you call them, that should be added to CAT tools to make their text editors as flexible as or more flexible than that of MS Word or similar word processing software.

It's typing that we do the most when we work, us translators, so please, CAT manufactures, concentrate some more effort in this area, instead of spreading your resources out too thinly for the sake of 'flashy' features with catchy names...


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Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 13:46
English to Czech
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??? Oct 21, 2011

Shankaran Viswanathan wrote:
One such instance is paste without format i.e. as simple text.


In fact, you always paste any characters as plain text. It's the tags that surround it which make the text appear bold, italics or whatever.

Epameinondas Soufleros wrote:
I couldn't agree more that there are several "missing features", as you call them, that should be added to CAT tools to make their text editors as flexible as or more flexible than that of MS Word or similar word processing software.

That would be in an ideal world. The truth is that the flexibility of a CAT tool is greatly limited by the possibilities of the source file editors. As you know, there is a large number of them. How do you make a one-size-fits-all CAT tool?


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Akke Wagenaar  Identity Verified
Senegal
Local time: 12:46
Member (2011)
English to Dutch
+ ...
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Source file editors have no influence on a CAT editor Oct 21, 2011

'That would be in an ideal world. The truth is that the flexibility of a CAT tool is greatly limited by the possibilities of the source file editors. As you know, there is a large number of them. How do you make a one-size-fits-all CAT tool?'

I don't believe that source file editors have any influence on a CAT editor. SDL analyzes a Word file or PDF file or any other file format and knows what's in it, then displays it with the visible and invisible tags that form part of the document structure. The SDL software knows exactly where in a segment the tags are and what part is the language I am working in. It knows when I am typing/editing Dutch or French plain text and it knows where to put blanks and where not to put blanks in that particular language, including blanks before/after tags in relation to the source segment ... True or false, people from SDL?

Also, I am not saying that SDL Editor should have all the features of all the possibly existing text editors in the world. I am saying that SDL Editor should contain the most used and generally needed and appreciated features of the first-in-class text editors of the world, one of them being Word ...

[Edited at 2011-10-21 17:20 GMT]

[Edited at 2011-10-21 17:22 GMT]


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Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 13:46
English to Czech
+ ...
That easy? Oct 21, 2011

akkefall wrote:
I don't believe that source file editors have any influence on a CAT editor. SDL analyzes a Word file or PDF file or any other file format and knows what's in it, then displays it with the visible and invisible tags that form part of the document structure.

If it were this easy, I dare to believe that CAT editors would have become the best universal text (and perhaps even graphic?) editors available on the market a long long time ago. Source file editors themselves of course have very little no influence on a CAT tool. What does matter is the source file data format (read "structure").

I still don't understand what you actually mean by "smart cutting and pasting" if "highlighting is not smart cutting and pasting". AFAIK, if you want to use "drag & drop" to move a word around a sentence in MS Word, you need to highlight it first. You can do the same in Studio.


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Akke Wagenaar  Identity Verified
Senegal
Local time: 12:46
Member (2011)
English to Dutch
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Understanding Smart Cut and Paste Oct 22, 2011

Please read the text below, because the discussion is getting to a rather useless point if you don't know what smart cutting and pasting is. On the webpage below you can see that Word has an option: Use smart cut and paste. Any text editor in this world in 2011 that provides highlighting and dragging/dropping of words, can also do smart cutting and pasting. It's just a matter of counting the spaces and adding/removing them according to the grammar rules of the specific language. I think it's as simple as that.

http://wordribbon.tips.net/T000008_Understanding_Smart_Cut_and_Paste.html
Understanding Smart Cut and Paste

by Allen Wyatt (last updated June 11, 2011)
"Word includes a feature, by default, that tries to make your editing chores just a little easier. This feature, called smart cut and paste, adds or removes spaces when you are cutting or pasting text. This may sound odd, but it is really helpful in many situations. For instance, if you are pasting a word into a sentence, smart cut and paste makes sure that spaces are added around the word so that it doesn't "run in" to the words you are pasting near.
Likewise, when you cut a word from a sentence, sometimes the cut might result in two spaces left: the ones that used to surround the word being pulled. Instead, smart cut and paste results in one of the spaces being automatically deleted so the resulting sentence has (at least) the proper number of spaces in it.
You can control smart cut and paste in the following manner:
Display the Word Options dialog box. (In Word 2007 click the Office button and then click Word Options. In Word 2010 display the File tab of the ribbon and then click Options.)
Click Advanced at the left side of the dialog box. (See Figure 1.)

Figure 1. The advanced options of the Word Options dialog box.
Set the Use Smart Cut and Paste check box as desired. If selected, the feature is turned on; if not selected, it is off.
Click the Settings button to make changes in how smart cut and paste works.
Click on OK.
WordTips is your source for cost-effective Microsoft Word training. (Microsoft Word is the most popular word processing software in the world.) This tip (8) applies to MS Word versions: 2007 | 2010
You can find a version of this tip for the older menu interface of Word here: Understanding Smart Cut and Paste."

The fact that I am starting this discussion, which may seem trivial to people who never use Smart Cut and Paste or who don't know what it is, as Wyatt writes: 'this may sound odd, but it is really helpful in many situations.' I work 40% faster now that I work in SDL Trados, but I work 10% slower in SDL Trados because of the time I loose with the tedious task of adding/removing and checking for spaces (on average 2 or 3 times per segment). So my overall gain by working in SDL Trados is 30% timewise, where it could have been 40%, but the overall gain in comfort/ergonomics/anti-RSI is negative.

[Edited at 2011-10-22 10:52 GMT]


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Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 13:46
English to Czech
+ ...
Still don't get it Oct 22, 2011

Thank you for the detailed description.
In your original post, you wrote:
And the fastest way to do that is to drag and drop the misplaced word, but when I do that in Trados, the word is glued to the previous word .... aaaarrrrggghhh!!!


I'm still wondering how Studio prevents you from doing that? You can find a brief example of what I mean here.

Otherwise, yes, having the possibility to add a space before and/or after a word automatically would be nice. You may want to post it as an idea on ideas.sdl.com.

[Upraveno: 2011-10-22 11:48 GMT]


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