Pages in topic:   [1 2] >
German quotation marks / deutsche Anführungszeichen
Thread poster: mjheinrich

mjheinrich
Local time: 13:15
Spanish to German
+ ...
Nov 11, 2011

Con anybody tell me how to change the quotation marks in Trados TagEditor (Trados 7) to German quotation marks?

 

esperantisto  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:15
Member (2006)
English to Russian
+ ...
I don’t understand Nov 11, 2011

what you mean under German quotation marks. Is there really anything special about them? Anyway, you can input guillemots «» using the US-International keyboard layout. Or Ilya Birman’s layout.

 

Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 14:15
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Does not work in TE Nov 11, 2011

I hardly ever translate into German in TE, so I made a short test. TE cannot apply German quotation marks. Only after re-typing in Word the quotation marks get right:

Wer hat gesagt „Das Leben is wunderbar“?

Another reason for using Word-based tools?

[Bearbeitet am 2011-11-11 12:36 GMT]


 

Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:15
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
ALT+0132 and ALT+0147 Nov 11, 2011

By pressing the ALT key and subsequently pressing 0132 or 0147 on the num pad (while keeping the ALT key pressed), you get the German opening and closing quotation mark, respectively.



[Bearbeitet am 2011-11-11 12:46 GMT]


 

Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:15
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
German quotation marks Nov 11, 2011

esperantisto wrote:

what you mean under German quotation marks. Is there really anything special about them?


Yes, there is.

esperantisto wrote:
Anyway, you can input guillemots «» using the US-International keyboard layout.


That's about as far away from German quotation marks as you can get.icon_wink.gif


 

mjheinrich
Local time: 13:15
Spanish to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
German quotation marks / deutsche Anführungszeichen Nov 11, 2011

Yes, the German quotation marks are "special".
Although in my personal opinion they are obsolete (and there are also different styles with different preferences depending on the country, see http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anführungszeichen )
most clients want to the "typical" German quotation marks.
I think, there must be a way...


 

mjheinrich
Local time: 13:15
Spanish to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
THANK YOU VERY MUCH! Nov 11, 2011

„Vielen Dank“icon_smile.gif

 

Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:15
English to German
+ ...
Wow. Nov 12, 2011

mjheinrich wrote:

Yes, the German quotation marks are "special".
Although in my personal opinion they are obsolete


So, the English or French ones are better, and the German ones are obsolete? Respect your source language, otherwise you will never be a good translator.


 

Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:15
English to German
+ ...
Yikes. Nov 12, 2011

esperantisto wrote:

what you mean under German quotation marks. Is there really anything special about them? Anyway, you can input guillemots «» using the US-International keyboard layout. Or Ilya Birman’s layout.


Those are French, Swiss or whatever. NO, you CAN NOT replace specific quotation marks with foreign ones. This sloppiness is outrageous. Wrong quotation marks are considered serious typos. Maybe that's why so many colleagues complain: "Waaah!! My bad, bad client doesn't pay me. They claim that my text was crawling with typos, and I don't know why! Boo-hooo!"

icon_smile.gif


 

Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 14:15
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Know your target language Nov 12, 2011

Typography and layout are specific to each country. When translating into a foreign language the basic features of target layout principles should be in the mind of the translator, but hardly any translator knows all the finesses a professional typesetter has learned. So for quality work every translation should be reviewed by a professional dtp-person.
Common mistakes in German are spaces in front of question marks or exclamation marks (from French origin), wrong quotation marks (English style "xxx") etc. I routinely remove spaces also around slash (x / x -> z/z), at least in Finnish.
The principle is not to give away the translation as translation at first glance. It should look like a normal text of the target country.

Quality translation software should be able to apply the right quotation mark style automatically, like Word does with Wordfast Classic. I don't know how SDL Studio performs in this respect.


 

Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:15
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Quotation marks and Studio Nov 12, 2011

Heinrich Pesch wrote:

Quality translation software should be able to apply the right quotation mark style automatically (...) I don't know how SDL Studio performs in this respect.


Not at all: If you don't know the correct way of using quotation marks in German, Studio won't get them right for you.

[Bearbeitet am 2011-11-12 09:24 GMT]

[Bearbeitet am 2011-11-12 09:24 GMT]


 

FarkasAndras
Local time: 13:15
English to Hungarian
+ ...
the correct way Nov 12, 2011

efreitag wrote:

Heinrich Pesch wrote:

Quality translation software should be able to apply the right quotation mark style automatically (...) I don't know how SDL Studio performs in this respect.


Not at all: If you don't know the correct way of using quotation marks in German, Studio won't get them right for you.


The correct way of using quotation marks is to type shift-2 (on my keyboard layout). Studio should know which style to use based on the target language setting, just like MS Word does. There is no separate key for opening and closing quotes so this would be the only reasonable solution. Or are you seriously suggesting that the "correct" solution is to type quotes with an Alt-xxxx code?

BTW if the file is in MS Word, you can just replace " with " after generating the target file. This will fix quotes - the trouble is that it's easy to forget.


 

Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:15
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Agree Nov 12, 2011

FarkasAndras wrote:

The correct way of using quotation marks is to type shift-2 (on my keyboard layout). Studio should know which style to use based on the target language setting, just like MS Word does. There is no separate key for opening and closing quotes so this would be the only reasonable solution. Or are you seriously suggesting that the "correct" solution is to type quotes with an Alt-xxxx code?


Yes, I'm all with you here. I'm not saying using the ALT codes is the "correct" way for entering typographic quotation marks in Studio, I'm saying that in Studio, it's the most reliable - and sometimes the only - one (as it works indepedently from any document settings etc.). The downside is: You have to know when and where to use which of them (but that should go without saying for a serious translator anyway).


 

mjheinrich
Local time: 13:15
Spanish to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
good or bad quotation marks? Nov 12, 2011

Nicole Schnell wrote:

mjheinrich wrote:

Yes, the German quotation marks are "special".
Although in my personal opinion they are obsolete


So, the English or French ones are better, and the German ones are obsolete? Respect your source language, otherwise you will never be a good translator.


"Obsolete" is not a question of "good" or "bad".

The thing is:
a) The „ “ is not the only valid style of quotation marks in German
(please refer to http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anführungszeichen)
b) Actually „ “ is the typical style in handwriting, but since typewriting (and PC) there is a tendency to use " " (for instance: http://www.zeit.de/index )
c) I personally prefer (to read and to write) " " (except for handwriting) and many other native do so (otherwise there would not be the mentioned tendency to use " ").


 

Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:15
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Tendencies? Nov 12, 2011

mjheinrich wrote:

a) The „ “ is not the only valid style of quotation marks in German


Indeed: The reversed guillemets (in German: umgekehrte französische Anführungszeichen) are valid in German, though they're almost exlusively used in literature. They certainly form an exception to the standard German quotation marks (which in turn, and for good reason, are called deutsche Anführungszeichen.)

mjheinrich wrote:

b) Actually „ “ is the typical style in handwriting, but since typewriting (and PC) there is a tendency to use " " (for instance: http://www.zeit.de/index )


The constraints imposed by the use of the typewriter are no longer valid today (although I sometimes use straight quotation marks when I can't be bothered to enter the correct ones, for example in forum posts on proz.com, but certainly not in texts I expect to get paid for).

mjheinrich wrote:

c) I personally prefer (to read and to write) " " (except for handwriting) and many other native do so (otherwise there would not be the mentioned tendency to use " ").


Your reasoning is fatal. I guess you have no problems writing Steh Imbiss or Erika's Blumenladen either, then? Because there's a very strong tendency by German natives to write like that, too.

Personal preference is completely irrelevant here, as long as we're talking about professional text producers. In your private life, you can of course spell and write any way you like.

I'm sure some day writing like in the examples I've given will become correct standard German. Until that day, I think translators and other professional users of the German language should adhere to the exisiting rules.


[Bearbeitet am 2011-11-12 14:46 GMT]

[Bearbeitet am 2011-11-12 14:46 GMT]


 
Pages in topic:   [1 2] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

German quotation marks / deutsche Anführungszeichen

Advanced search







Wordfast Pro
Translation Memory Software for Any Platform

Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users! Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value

More info »
TM-Town
Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business

Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search