Studio 2011 - how to insert Unicode characters 8206 and 8207 for LTR/RTL
Thread poster: Doron Greenspan MITI

Doron Greenspan MITI  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 00:36
Member (2005)
English to Hebrew
+ ...
Jan 2, 2012

Just now I'm starting to use Studio 2011 in earnest, and have this nagging problem when translating English>Hebrew:

In TagEditor, I used Unicode characters 8206 and 8207 for LTR/RTL markers.
In Studio, the equivalent toolbar buttons for RTL and LTR do something else altogether (seems like right/left-aligning).

My question:
How does one go about creating a shortcut for each of those Unicode characters?

Thanks, Doron


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SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:36
English
A question on this.. Jan 2, 2012

Hi Doron,

In the quick insert menu for Word ini Studio 2011 we have three sets of options built in:

LRM : Left to Right Mark
RLM : Right to Left Mark

LRE : Start of left to right embedding
RLE : Start of right to left embedding

LRO : Start of left to right override
RLO : Start of right to left override

I think the first is what you need, but I think it would be better if you could elaborate a little on your example problem. The test I did (and it's hard for me in BiDi) suggests that the LRM and RLM just changes the direction for the text you are using and doesn't actually align the text.

Pictures are good

Thanks

Paul


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Doron Greenspan MITI  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 00:36
Member (2005)
English to Hebrew
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, Paul Jan 2, 2012

I'll check these out and see which one is the one I need.
I'll let you (and the users) know of course.


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Doron Greenspan MITI  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 00:36
Member (2005)
English to Hebrew
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
How do I do this??? Jan 2, 2012

I've been puzzling over this for hours, but can't work out:

How do I create keyboard shortcuts for LRE and RLE (and also the PDF character)?

Nowhere in the Studio Help could I get a simple workflow to get this done!

Even after I got to the right "Edit QuickInsert" window (Tools/Options/File Types/MS Word 2003/QuickInsert/...), I can't figure out how to make a shortcut out of it.

- What does "Start Text" actually mean in that window?
- Having checked "Display on Toolbar" - where am I supposed to see this?
- How can I create a keyboard shortcut for any of these (on Tools/Options/Editor - QuickInsert Toolbar - for any of the Custom ones)?

This is really so terribly frustrating!


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SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:36
English
I see the problem Jan 2, 2012

Hi Doron.

I now see what you meant by left and right align in your original post. If I set a shortcut to the two alignment commands in the keyboard shortcuts then this is indeed what happens.

It looks as though the last 7 quick insert commands that are all related to BiDi (I forgot about the Pop Directional Formatting in my previous post) are not in the list of keyboard shortcuts so you can't assign one. This means mouse use is the only option for now.

I'll log this one with development for a fix. Thank you for bringing this one up and apologies for the inconvenience.

Regards

Paul


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Doron Greenspan MITI  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 00:36
Member (2005)
English to Hebrew
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
We're back then to old times... Jan 3, 2012

Thanks, Paul.

I must say this is very disappointing, and takes us back to old times.
SDLX suffers from the same lack of keyboard shortcuts for LRE and RLE.

But TagEditor DOES HAVE Ctrl+Shift+R / Ctrl+Shift+L for these characters - and yet Studio 2011 doesn't...

As I told Shai in his earlier post, I'm doing 40,000 words on Studio and was rather happy about it. Until now.
Now I'll have to use the awkward toolbar icons to do each of these LRE/RLE and the others manually - that's really frustrating.

Still, is there a way at least to get those Unicode characters unto buttons?
(I mean, without having to open the QuickInsert toolbar first each time.)

Can this be sorted out as a fix soon?

[Edited at 2012-01-03 14:06 GMT]


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Jonathan Golan
Israel
Local time: 00:36
Member (2004)
English to Hebrew
+ ...
keyboard shortcuts available Jan 3, 2012

Hi Doron,

I spoke to SDL Support about this just last week.

The only option I could find right now, was to create keyboard shortcuts through the options menu.

The more serious issue is that this option exists only for MS Word files and not for other file types...

Jonathan


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SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:36
English
Just to summarise... Jan 3, 2012

Hi,

The issues come down to these I think:

  1. You cannot set a special shortcut to these bi-di characters (logged with dev)
  2. The usage of these special characters is not explained well in the help (logged with tech pubs)
  3. Inserting a special unicode character using 8206+alt+x (for example) doesn’t work (logged with dev)

There is a workaround which is to use the mouse and select the special bi-di characters from quick inserts but I appreciate this is tedious.

It would also be useful to know which filetypes, that you think should support these features, are missing this in Studio? I am advised that the quick inserts are available for all filetypes that support these BiDi controls.

Regards

Paul


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Doron Greenspan MITI  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 00:36
Member (2005)
English to Hebrew
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Agreed, and... Jan 3, 2012

...I'm just adding to my frustration by discovering that the QuickInsert option doesn't even exist for XML files (the option is greyed-out)...

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SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:36
English
Not so straighforward for XML... Jan 3, 2012

Doron Greenspan MITI wrote:

...I'm just adding to my frustration by discovering that the QuickInsert option doesn't even exist for XML files (the option is greyed-out)...


Hi Doron,

I was wondering if you were only kidding now? But I guess you're not. XML could use anything to represent these controls and not all XML would be the same. So for example, HTML uses something like this:

<span dir="rtl">PRODUCTNAME</span>

If this was supported in your XML file then you could easily add this in the QuickInsert for your filetype and it would then become available for use. But if this syntax was not supported when the target file was returned to your client then he wouldn't be very happy.

I would ask your client and see what information he can provide and then perhaps it will be possible to add the appropriate Quick Insert tags to your XML filetype and use them.

Regards

Paul

Post edit... I forgot about the silly angle brackets not showing

[Edited at 2012-01-03 16:00 GMT]


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SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:36
English
Update on the Quick Insert Issue Jan 11, 2012

Hello Doron,

The Product Manager for Studio spent a little time this afternoon working through this to establish exactly what the issues were we needed to address. It was an interesting exercise because it also touched on your finding that the buttons on the toolbar just left and right aligned as opposed to setting the markers you needed.

In TagEditor we have these same two buttons. The tooltip actually says 8206 and 8207 (which is 200E and 200F in hex code) in TagEditor, and when you insert it, a hidden character gets inserted. So nothing to do with LRM etc. but rather "normal" RTL and LTR marks. These are probably the most frequently used BiDi marks needed by users.

The buttons in Studio should actually behave in the same way, so the fact they change the alignment instead is the bug. We will let you know when this will be resolved.

In the meantime there are two workarounds you might find useful. The first is to copy and paste the marks from Word. They are invisible in Word but show up when copied over to Studio. This works... but may be awkward to use.

The second is to use AutoHotkey with a script something like this:

#NoEnv ; Recommended for performance and compatibility with future AutoHotkey releases.
#Warn ; Recommended for catching common errors.
SendMode Input ; Recommended for new scripts due to its superior speed and reliability.
SetWorkingDir %A_ScriptDir% ; Ensures a consistent starting directory.
::rtl::{U+200E}
::ltr::{U+200F}

If you use AutoHotkey you can probably improve this, I just copied exactly what was in the file for a standalone script. Basically this inserts an ‏‏LTR mark when typing "ltr" followed by space, and RTL when typing "rtl". This seems to work in Studio and inserts the marks as expected.

In the meantime we'll work on the proper fix and let you know when it is complete.

Regards

Paul


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Doron Greenspan MITI  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 00:36
Member (2005)
English to Hebrew
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Workarounds Jan 12, 2012

Thanks Paul, the best would be of course a proper solution to this - the localisation community in Israel is pretty annoyed about this (to say the least)...

I'll try the hotkey solution - although I suspect I'll have to devote much time to figure it out, seeing your examples.

The copying from Word is just marginally less tedious than opening that QuickInset toolbar.

By the way, I wasn't joking, it is true that in some XML files, the QuickInsert option is greyed out - don't know why, and haven't checked it seriously yet.

Cheers, Doron


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SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:36
English
On the visible quick inserts Jan 12, 2012

Hi Doron,

I was corrected today by one of our developers and actually there isn't a bug with this functionality, just missing shortcuts. So this was my error describing the problem like this.

The buttons I referred to have different functionality – in TagEditor we had a poor BiDi implementation which worked only with two BiDi markers. In Studio these buttons are used for paragraph alignment and then we have set of quick inserts for all available BiDi markers (exactly how Word does it). So the Studio solution is already more feature rich for BiDi, the problem is missing shortcuts to make these more accessible and not a bug with what is there. This is logged for resolution.

On the hotkey solution... it's actually very simple and once you install AutoHotkey and edit the script with the bits I gave you it's really simple. You could tailor the shortcut to be whatever you wanted too.

There is also a keyboard workaround you might also be able to automate, or just learn to do quickly... maybe. I tried it a few timnes and it's not that bad when you get used to it;

1. Press Alt+O to actiate the Format menu, and Enter to open the menu.
2. Press I to call the Insert Tag command.
3. Press Tab three times to move into the list.
4. Press "L" to go directly to the LRM item, or "R" to go to the RLM item.
5. Press Enter to insert.

On the XML. I guessed you weren't joking so I hope you read the rest of my explanation too.

Regards

Paul


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Doron Greenspan MITI  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 00:36
Member (2005)
English to Hebrew
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The ultimate workaround for RLE/LRE Feb 29, 2012

Hi Paul,

It was nice meeting you in Jerusalem, and now, after several attempts at AutoHotKey that you recommended, I finally came up with the ultimate shortcut for RLM/LRM.

Of course, it can be adapted to any of the others (RLE, LRE etc.).

This is the AutoHotKey string, which imitates the good old TagEditor shortcuts - Ctrl+Shift+R / Ctrl+Shift+L.
What was missing in your script in order to run the key (not letter) combinations was the "send" command...

---

#NoEnv ; Recommended for performance and compatibility with future AutoHotkey releases.
#Warn ; Recommended for catching common errors.
SendMode Input ; Recommended for new scripts due to its superior speed and reliability.
SetWorkingDir %A_ScriptDir% ; Ensures a consistent starting directory.
^+r::
send {U+200F} ; This is for the RLM mark
^+l::
send {U+200E} ; This is for the LRM mark

---

Many thanks, but I still hope you'll sort this officially soon

[Edited at 2012-02-29 17:40 GMT]


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SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:36
English
on AHK Mar 4, 2012

Hi Doron,

It was nice meeting you too... always good to get out of the office!

Thanks for the correction, and the proper solution will be available shortly.

Just out of interest, I came across a neat script you can run alongside the one you use on the DVX users forum this week. It's called Carlinga and you can find it here:

http://catology.boisset.eu/Carlinga

It's untested with Studio so I have no idea how many shortcuts might clash with things you have in Studio already, but it looks really comprehensive and might be a useful addition to your armoury for many things inclusing these BiDi markers.

Regards

Paul


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