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Working with the same TM and termbase in two different computers at the same time.
Thread poster: Ma.Elena Carrión de Medina

Ma.Elena Carrión de Medina  Identity Verified
Ecuador
Local time: 03:17
Member (2008)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Feb 8, 2012

Hello,

Franco (my husband) and me are working in two different translation projects for the same client.

We have a translation memory and a termbase for this client. We keep these updated through Dropbox.

I´d like to know if it is possible to work with the same translation memory and termbase at the same time, from two different computers, without creating a conflict.

Any info will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Elena


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:17
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Only if you have the Pro version Feb 8, 2012

I am not certain about termbases, which might be possible to open on two different computers at the same time, or maybe not.
But you can open a TM on two different PCs at the same time and this will work quite well, provided you use the Professinal version of Trados. In the Freelance this will not work.
This said I must also add that this applied to Trados 2007. I never tried that in Studio though.

The easiest way to share files on the network is the use of a NAS.
You can connect both PCs to it, enable the corresponding user to access the same share there and put the files on it. Works like charm in that respect.


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FarkasAndras
Local time: 10:17
English to Hungarian
+ ...
NAS/Dropbox and Studio Freelance Feb 8, 2012

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

I am not certain about termbases, which might be possible to open on two different computers at the same time, or maybe not.
But you can open a TM on two different PCs at the same time and this will work quite well, provided you use the Professinal version of Trados. In the Freelance this will not work.
This said I must also add that this applied to Trados 2007. I never tried that in Studio though.

The easiest way to share files on the network is the use of a NAS.
You can connect both PCs to it, enable the corresponding user to access the same share there and put the files on it. Works like charm in that respect.


I don't have experience in this area but my interest is piqued. Has anyone tried to use Studio (2009 or 2011) Freelance with TMs updated live via either dropbox or a NAS? I imagine there could be sharing violations all over the place. I'm not sure if DB can update files that are in use, for instance... The NAS solution sounds more feasible, but even that might not work if you actually want to read and write the same files from two computers at the same time. Studio FL might flatly refuse to work with TMs that are on a NAS - I wouldn't be surprised.

Elena, please share your experience (and the trados versions you're using)!


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:17
French to Polish
+ ...
Other CAT tools... Feb 8, 2012

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

I am not certain about termbases, which might be possible to open on two different computers at the same time, or maybe not.

Possible but not documented.
It's quite obvious, no need to buy servers for small teams...

But you can open a TM on two different PCs at the same time and this will work quite well, provided you use the Professinal version of Trados. In the Freelance this will not work.
This said I must also add that this applied to Trados 2007. I never tried that in Studio though.

Neither me but I doubt the Trados programmers did the same ridiculous error in thee design than the Multiterm ones...

IMO the easier way to share projects is DVX.
http://www.atril.com
Even the Standard version does but the sound minimum is Professional.

If you want only to share TMs and TBs, you have several sound alternatives, e.g. Swordfish, Metatexis, Cafetran etc.
All these tools (except DVX) are cheap or very cheap.

The easiest way to share files on the network is the use of a NAS.
You can connect both PCs to it, enable the corresponding user to access the same share there and put the files on it. Works like charm in that respect.

Yep, seconded.

Cheers
GG

[Edited at 2012-02-08 16:06 GMT]


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Ma.Elena Carrión de Medina  Identity Verified
Ecuador
Local time: 03:17
Member (2008)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Trados Studio Freelance Plus 2011 and Dropbox Feb 8, 2012

Hello and thanks for your responses.

We are using Studio 2011 Freelance Plus.

We have our TMs and TBs in Dropbox.
These can be opened in both computers without any problem.
If we work indistinctly, they get updated with no problem.

The problem is when we both use the same TM and TB at the same time.
Dropbox automatically creates a "conflicting copy" of both, the TM and TB.


So, we were wondering if there is a way, maybe other than Dropbox, that will allow us to work at the same time with no conflicts.


Thanks again!


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:17
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Would need to test it on NAS Feb 8, 2012

Sorry, currently no time to test it.
What works flawlessly for a single user, is keeping all the files on the NAS and working with a desktop.
In my case all project files and the project TM are on NAS. Main TM and termbases are local on my PC.

I am not an expert in networking, but I am quite certain, that the behavior of Dropbox cannot be compared with a NAS, which in fact is nothing else than a small file server. In this terms "small" means the measurements, not even the performance.


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:17
French to Polish
+ ...
Sharing violation vs network enebled CAT tools... Feb 8, 2012

FarkasAndras wrote:

The NAS solution sounds more feasible, but even that might not work if you actually want to read and write the same files from two computers at the same time. Studio FL might flatly refuse to work with TMs that are on a NAS - I wouldn't be surprised.

IMO it's possible to dupe Studio, i.e. set two identical TM copies on two different logical drives (on every machine, use the same drive letter for one of them), then synchronize 'em. let's say every hour using the standard Studio update batch tasks but it's a lot of work and one must pay attention.

BTW, you can also use this scenario for local drives and use Dropbox for synchronization.

Nonetheless, the time spent to synchronize TMs will cost a fortune in a long term perspective.
A network enabled CAT makes more sense.
E.g. now, with my wife, we translate the same file in DVX.

PS.
I screwed up this post i.e. I deleted a large part of my message.
But the general meaning of the part I lost was it's impossible to share (i.e. access simultaneously) TMs with the Freelance edition.
Sorry...

Cheers
GG

[Edited at 2012-02-08 19:55 GMT]


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Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 11:17
Finnish to French
Dropbox is for synchronizing, not simultaneous sharing Feb 8, 2012

Ma.Elena Carrión de Medina wrote:
The problem is when we both use the same TM and TB at the same time.
Dropbox automatically creates a "conflicting copy" of both, the TM and TB.

This is the way Dropbox works, by design: you can't use it to share files that are modified by two different users.
What you could do with your husband is have each your own, personal TM and TB and use Dropbox to synchronize them to the other computer. Studio Freelance does allow access to two TM's and two TB's, right? Just make sure you don't write anything to the TM/TB of your husband, and vice-versa.


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:17
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
That is the idea! Feb 8, 2012

Dominique Pivard wrote:

Ma.Elena Carrión de Medina wrote:
The problem is when we both use the same TM and TB at the same time.
Dropbox automatically creates a "conflicting copy" of both, the TM and TB.

This is the way Dropbox works, by design: you can't use it to share files that are modified by two different users.
What you could do with your husband is have each your own, personal TM and TB and use Dropbox to synchronize them to the other computer. Studio Freelance does allow access to two TM's and two TB's, right? Just make sure you don't write anything to the TM/TB of your husband, and vice-versa.


Put TWO TMs and TWO termbases in a shared folder.
The one used on your PC shall be now called TM1 and TB1, the other one for your husband will be TM2 and TB2.
In your project TB1 will be the first TM and the one getting updated, the TB1 will be the default termbase. Set TM2 and TB2 as secondary TM without updating, and TB2 as the second termbase.
Do the same on your husbands computer, but exactly with the opposite order.
This way you will both see what the other one has done (and this in real time)!*
You will not need to synchronize the TMs and TBs until the project is done.
Then, instead of synchronizing the TMs, just create a new one and use the translated files to update it.
For Multiterm export the content of one of the TBs and import in another one, creating an import definition for no duplicates.

*Provided Studio will accept the read-only acces to the secondary TMs and TBs, what I suppose.


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:17
French to Polish
+ ...
Sharing data bases in Trados... Feb 8, 2012

Jerzy Czopik wrote:

This way you will both see what the other one has done (and this in real time)!*

(...)

*Provided Studio will accept the read-only acces to the secondary TMs and TBs, what I suppose.


TBs, yes (see below).

TMs, no, I think.
If TMs can be shared in Trados FL even in the read-only mode, it would mean the Trados programmers are dumb as bags of hammers.
It would screw up totally the Trados licensing model, i.e. the Pro version would not be longer necessary for a lot of customers.

Can anybody test it on Studio Freelance?
Just launch it twice and try to open/use the same TM.

For Multiterm export the content of one of the TBs and import in another one, creating an import definition for no duplicates.


I repeat, it's not necessary.
Multiterm data bases can be shared with no limitations (except the performance).
The Multiterm architects say it' can't be done but it's possible.
It's an error in the design, they simply must allow simultaneous data access.

Cheers
GG

[Edited at 2012-02-08 20:58 GMT]


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FarkasAndras
Local time: 10:17
English to Hungarian
+ ...
? Feb 9, 2012

Grzegorz Gryc wrote:

IMO it's possible to dupe Studio, i.e. set two identical TM copies on two different logical drives (on every machine, use the same drive letter for one of them), then synchronize 'em. let's say every hour using the standard Studio update batch tasks but it's a lot of work and one must pay attention.

BTW, you can also use this scenario for local drives and use Dropbox for synchronization.



I'm afraid I lost you there... could you explain in more detail?


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:17
French to Polish
+ ...
Explanation... Feb 9, 2012

FarkasAndras wrote:

Grzegorz Gryc wrote:

IMO it's possible to dupe Studio, i.e. set two identical TM copies on two different logical drives (on every machine, use the same drive letter for one of them), then synchronize 'em. let's say every hour using the standard Studio update batch tasks but it's a lot of work and one must pay attention.

BTW, you can also use this scenario for local drives and use Dropbox for synchronization.


I'm afraid I lost you there... could you explain in more detail?


On the NAS or on the file server, you have two partitions A and B.
On one machine, you map A, let's say as O:
On the one machine, you map B as O:

You put your projects (not TMs) on another logical drive (let's say, P:)
You put your TBs on the same drive (they can be shared directly. despite of the SDL statements) or on a different drive (let's say, Q:), as you like (I prefer a separate drive).

You put two identical TMs (let's say, X ans Y) on O: (physically A and B).
On one machine, X1 is write enabled, Y1 is read only.
On the other machine, X2 is read only, Y2 is write enabled.

When necessary, you replace X2 by X1 and Y1 by Y2.
E.g. you can create a set of .bat files and do it semiautomatically.

In this way you can use the same project with TMs and TBx almost up to date independently of the machine you use.

Of course, you can also use some resources locally and synchronize 'em using Dropbox or similar (mainly TMs) but IMO the easiest way to make it run smoothly with almost no administration at all is to store all the data over the LAN.

The Studio batch task "Update the main TM" is just a way to make sure everything was sent correctly to the write enabled TM.
As always, in this kind of scenario, the backup is mandatory in order to avoid human errors.

It's almost the same concept as the solution proposed by Jerzy but it's adapted to the real world i.e. both Trados instances can't see the resources they can't share, at least physically

In fact, the project can be also shared but it may be dangerous (Trados doesn't lock .sdlproj and .sdlxliff files, so it's better to avoid the concurrent use.

Cheers
GG


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FarkasAndras
Local time: 10:17
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Wow Feb 9, 2012

Grzegorz Gryc wrote:


You put two identical TMs (let's say, X ans Y) on O: (physically A and B).
On one machine, X1 is write enabled, Y1 is read only.
On the other machine, X2 is read only, Y2 is write enabled.

When necessary, you replace X2 by X1 and Y1 by Y2.
E.g. you can create a set of .bat files and do it semiautomatically.



Whew, that was complicated.
IMO if you have to give up live updating anyway, then a simpler setup would make more sense. I don't see any great benefit in having the same project on both computers. Just set up a project on each. People have different tastes and work methods, so the two translators will likely make slightly different settings anyway (different TMs, merge/not merge files, whatever).
I wouldn't want to have more than one partition on my NAS, that'd just make me waste time looking for things and clicking around in TCMD to switch drives.

Anyway, essentially, the idea is to have two TMs: one (TMA) updated by translator A, the other updated by translator B (TMB). Translator A uses a copy of TMB as a non-updated reference TM, and replaces the copy they're using every hour or whatever seems reasonable (you might need to quit Trados when you replace the file...?). At the end of the project, TMA and TMB are merged.
If there's a NAS, this should be pretty easy to do: A just needs to make a copy of TMB so that he's not trying to read the file that B is writing.

There's one lingering question I have: does dropbox work with Trados for live updating? I.e. can translator A just put TMA in their dropbox folder and work with that copy with Trados? Elena's experience seems to show that this works fine as long as translator B isn't trying to use the file at the same time. If so, then the two-TM system is pretty workable even over the internet, without having to futz around with updating files too much.

[Edited at 2012-02-09 14:48 GMT]


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:17
French to Polish
+ ...
Networking as a state of mind :) Feb 10, 2012

FarkasAndras wrote:

Grzegorz Gryc wrote:

You put (...)


Whew, that was complicated.

Well, I don't think so
I.e. it may seem complicated but the networking is a state of mind

I.e. you can scale down/up or improve this schema but it covers the core problems.
If one thinks networked, he sees immediately the possibly conflicting elements but he can easily simplify the things.
When one thinks as a single PC user, the things are getting worse and complex.

BTW, I always stated they're two kind of CAT tools, networked and bad ones.
So, Trados Freelance is frankly bad by definition

I'll continue later with more details... I have a hard deadline now...

Cheers
GG


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FarkasAndras
Local time: 10:17
English to Hungarian
+ ...
The plot thickens Feb 25, 2012

While looking for something completely different, I bumped into a 2010 post by an SDL employee stating that Studio TM sharing works just fine via NAS or shared folder. (Possibly of interest to you, GG, the man says that internal testing showed TMs can get corrupted on NASes).

http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/TW_users/message/56495

This isn't even just some half-usable hack that might fail at any moment, it's officially supported:
http://kb.sdl.com/article.aspx?article=2550&p=1

So, did anyone try this? Does it work (well)?
If this works, my appreciation for SDL will climb up a notch. This almost makes up for MultiTerm. Almost.

[Edited at 2012-02-25 16:39 GMT]


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