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Why are Serbian Latin and Serbian Cyrillic considered being two different languages in Studio 2011
Thread poster: stasha

stasha  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:36
German to Serbian
+ ...
Jul 6, 2012

In Trados Studio 2011 Freelance Plus version the following variants of Serbian language: Serbian Latin and Serbian Cyrillic count as two different languages. Why is this a case since for the other languages e.g. German all the variants are included (Swiss, Austran etc.)? Why is this diffrent then for Serbian?
And with the limitation of 5 default languages in Freelance version of Studio 2011, this is a problem. I have tried to contact the support, but there was no reply. It would be nice when Serbian is selected to have both variants included. Thanks!


 

Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:36
Finnish to French
arbitrary distinction Jul 7, 2012

Considering Serbian Latin and Serbian Cyrillic as two different languages (from the point of view of the cap on the number of languages supported in the Freelance edition of SDL Trados) indeed sounds arbitrary.

 

Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:36
French to Polish
+ ...
Script... Chinese... Jul 7, 2012

Stanislava Blagojevic wrote:

In Trados Studio 2011 Freelance Plus version the following variants of Serbian language: Serbian Latin and Serbian Cyrillic count as two different languages. Why is this a case since for the other languages e.g. German all the variants are included (Swiss, Austran etc.)? Why is this diffrent then for Serbian?

The script i.e. Cyrillic vs Latin.
Technically, it makes a difference, especially in the "legacy" Trados versions (different code pages etc.).
Probably it was easier to handle it as two completely different unrelated languages and somebody didn't pay attention and didn't use its brain while designing the licensing system.

And with the limitation of 5 default languages in Freelance version of Studio 2011, this is a problem. I have tried to contact the support, but there was no reply.

Usually, they have problems to answer sound questions and prefer to ignore 'em...

It would be nice when Serbian is selected to have both variants included.

Yep.
BTW, a similar solution i.e. licensing as two languages is used from eternity for Chinese (Simplified vs Traditional) but I'm really amazed they handle Serbian in this way...

Cheers
GG


 

stasha  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:36
German to Serbian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Anybody knows how to get SDL support's attention? Jul 7, 2012

Yes, you are all right about this. It is even worse than I first thought, all variants of Serbian have to be added as separate languages, Serbian Latin Serbia, Serbian Latin Serbia and Montenegro, Serbian Latin Bosnia and Herzegovina etc etc... The same applies for all Cyrillic variants. This is really unacceptable. I went twice today trough the whole process of deinstalling, returning the licence, reinstalling and licencing again to be able to change my default languages, and the first time I selected the wrong Serbian and the predefined package I have received from the client could not be opened. So I had to do it again.
I cannot believe that I would have to do this every time when I have a different variant of Serbian! There is a great chance that I would have to, because I have EN, DE and NL as my source languages - so that's 3 already and with so many Serbian variants that are treated as separate languages it will be the case - because the remaining 2 languages do not cover this.
I tried to contact SDL support, but apparently for Belgium there is one person who is replying to all inquiries and he is always referring to the page where support can be purchased as from 250 eur, in the other words not willing to help. The same happens with the live chat - the same person there.
Anybody ever tried to send a complaint regarding this 5 languages limitation to SDL? Or any other way to get trough to someone from SDL who can help?
I am not quite sure that purchasing the support package will help with this issue.


 

Antoní­n Otáhal
Local time: 00:36
Member (2005)
English to Czech
+ ...
registry tweak Jul 7, 2012

You can try this:

http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/148435-how_to_change_default_5_languages.html

Antonin


 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:36
English
Just a quick response Jul 8, 2012

Hi,

I can't test this at the moment, but I just wanted to let you know that you have our attention and we will look at this on Monday.

Regards

Paul


 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:36
English
Cultures Jul 9, 2012

Hi Stanislava,

I don't have a conclusive action on this yet, but wanted to update you a little. Our understanding is that (based on W7 dotnet 3.5) we have the following:

sr Serbian
sr-Cyrl-BA Serbian (Cyrillic) (Bosnia and Herzegovina)
sr-Cyrl-CS Serbian (Cyrillic, Serbia and Montenegro (Former))
sr-Cyrl-ME Serbian (Cyrillic) (Montenegro)
sr-Cyrl-RS Serbian (Cyrillic) (Serbia)
sr-Latn-BA Serbian (Latin) (Bosnia and Herzegovina)
sr-Latn-CS Serbian (Latin, Serbia and Montenegro (Former))
sr-Latn-ME Serbian (Latin) (Montenegro)
sr-Latn-RS Serbian (Latin) (Serbia)

hr Croatian
hr-BA Croatian (Latin) (Bosnia and Herzegovina)
hr-HR Croatian (Croatia)

bs-Cyrl-BA Bosnian (Cyrillic) (Bosnia and Herzegovina)
bs-Latn-BA Bosnian (Latin) (Bosnia and Herzegovina)

So, I need Product Management to confirm how best to handle this and then what we can do to help in the time it takes us to resolve this. We have a good idea, but we'll confirm shortly.

Apologies for the inconvenience as the current situation is clearly incorrect.

Regards

Paul


 

Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:36
French to Polish
+ ...
SDL Linguistics Jul 9, 2012

SDL Support wrote:

I don't have a conclusive action on this yet, but wanted to update you a little. Our understanding is that (based on W7 dotnet 3.5)

Oh my God, .Net stands for linguistics in SDL...

we have the following:

sr Serbian
sr-Cyrl-BA Serbian (Cyrillic) (Bosnia and Herzegovina)
sr-Cyrl-CS Serbian (Cyrillic, Serbia and Montenegro (Former))
sr-Cyrl-ME Serbian (Cyrillic) (Montenegro)
sr-Cyrl-RS Serbian (Cyrillic) (Serbia)
sr-Latn-BA Serbian (Latin) (Bosnia and Herzegovina)
sr-Latn-CS Serbian (Latin, Serbia and Montenegro (Former))
sr-Latn-ME Serbian (Latin) (Montenegro)
sr-Latn-RS Serbian (Latin) (Serbia)

hr Croatian
hr-BA Croatian (Latin) (Bosnia and Herzegovina)
hr-HR Croatian (Croatia)

bs-Cyrl-BA Bosnian (Cyrillic) (Bosnia and Herzegovina)
bs-Latn-BA Bosnian (Latin) (Bosnia and Herzegovina)

So, I need Product Management to confirm how best to handle this and then what we can do to help in the time it takes us to resolve this. We have a good idea, but we'll confirm shortly.


Well, I still have an old Serbo-Croatian manual on my bookshelf icon_smile.gif
Frankly speaking, for a stranger like me, the real difference between all of them is just like EN-US, EN-GB and, let's say EN-AU...
You should probably count every variant of English as a different language, it would boost the Professional version sales icon_smile.gif

Cheers
GG


 

Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:36
French to Polish
+ ...
Trados 2007 or earlier... Jul 9, 2012


Nope, it works only for Trados 2007 and earlier....icon_frown.gif

Cheers
GG


 

stasha  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:36
German to Serbian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Jul 10, 2012

Paul, thanks a lot for trying to resolve this, I really appreciate it.

@ Grzegorz - it used to be called like that before and you would be surprised how many clients are still asking for Serbo-croatian:)


 

Maria Callebaut-Blagojevic  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 00:36
Dutch to French
+ ...
EN US vs EN UK Jul 10, 2012

Stanislava Blagojevic wrote:

Paul, thanks a lot for trying to resolve this, I really appreciate it.

@ Grzegorz - it used to be called like that before and you would be surprised how many clients are still asking for Serbo-croatian:)


I do fully understand your point. How come English is accepted internationally as English and is paid for as one language (with possibilities to chose between different 'dialects' for spelling purposes) but Serbian and/or Croatian are not? I thought it was the case (I haven't check in the latest version yet)! So, I can have e.g. French, Dutch, English, Spanish as a general language and all their dialects come free with it, but Serbian and Croatian don't??????????????????? Plus, as far as I know Bosnian has not been accepted as a separate language yet, or has it? God, when politicians who know nothing of the topic get the power, SDL and others make money!!!!!!!!!!


 

Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:36
French to Polish
+ ...
BCS Jul 10, 2012

Stanislava Blagojevic wrote:

Paul, thanks a lot for trying to resolve this, I really appreciate it.

BTW, Paul is asking your opinion on the matter...

@ Grzegorz - it used to be called like that before and you would be surprised how many clients are still asking for Serbo-croatian:)

I'm not really surprised the Serbo-Croatian name is still widely used 'cause most people rarely fight against the intellectual inertia.
But, politically correct, they should rather ask for BCS now icon_smile.gif

BTW, the "one state - one language" myth makes some people believe(d) it's a lot of funny languages like Swiss, Belgian and, of course, Yugoslavian icon_smile.gif
In the same way, some people simply don't believe the Catalan exists because it's a part of the Spanish state.

I don't want to start a holy war here but e.g. the European Union uses quite officially the BCS term, so I really think only one license slot should be used for Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian.
It simply makes sense from the practical point of view, independently of the political/linguistic choices I understand.

Cheers
GG


[Edited at 2012-07-10 14:58 GMT]


 

Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:36
French to Polish
+ ...
ISO Jul 10, 2012

Maria Callebaut wrote:

Plus, as far as I know Bosnian has not been accepted as a separate language yet, or has it?

Bosnian was officially recognized by ISO (International Organization for Standardization).
Montenegrin is not (yet?) and is considered as a Serbian dialect.

Cheers
GG


 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:36
English
many would agree with this... Jul 10, 2012

Grzegorz Gryc wrote:

I don't want to start a holy war here but e.g. the European Union uses quite officially the BCS term, so I really think only one license slot should be used for Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian.
It simply makes sense from the practical point of view, independently of the political/linguistic choices I understand.

Cheers
GG


The issue here is simply a technical one and related to the use of "script" being town in to create a three tier language code as oppossed to two. For example sr-Cyrl-BA instead of sr-BA. We use the language codes defined here:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb896001.aspx

Most of the time this is great because you don't need to think about how to handle numbers, irrespective of how large they are, they are always localized correctly. The drawback of course is when numbers/dates etc. do not follow the codes defined in the link above and this is where we could do with more flexibility.

Rather than helping SDL and others make money, which is a very cynical view, the political changes actually cause more work because the intention is not to restrict the language choices in this way at all.

The more interesting thing for me is how this language selection issues hasn't been noted yet. The same problem will affect more than just these as well, so we have been through the list of all supported languages and identified those that are probably affected.

Anyone affected by this should contact us so we can sort out an immediate, but temporary solution to the problem for now.

Regards

Paul
pfilkin@sdl.com


 

stasha  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:36
German to Serbian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
One slot would be the best Jul 10, 2012

I agree with Grzegorz and I think that translators with any of BCMS languages would appreciate if they could have them all in their default selection of languages in Freelance Trados Studio 2011 by choosing one slot. For me that would be ideal.

It is indeed a surprise that nobody noticed this before.

Thanks for your support!


 
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