Is working directly with Bilingual word file in Studio 2011 for real
Thread poster: Hakan Kiyici

Hakan Kiyici  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 06:53
Member (2009)
English to Turkish
+ ...
Jul 11, 2012

Hi,

I had my reasons for not upgrading to Trados 2011. Therefore, I did not do so. One major reason was backward compatibility. Just imagine, Word 2010 is not opening Word 2007 files. Awful.

The only reason I would be upgrading is the ability to work directly with bilingual word files, as advertised.

New Trados 2011 website new features tab says

No need for Trados 2007
With Studio 2011 users can convert SDL Trados 2007 Suite TMs to SDLTM, preview SDL Trados TTX and SDLX ITD files, convert SDL Trados TTX and SDLX ITD files back to their original format, etc., meaning you only need one translation tool - Studio 2011.

Migration guide, however, says (but talks more about converting legacy tms not working directly not very inspiring for a solution)

Bilingual Rich Text Format (RTF) files created when translating in Microsoft Word with SDL
Trados Translator’s Workbench and cannot be processed or opened in SDL Trados Studio. To
leverage information from these files, they must first be cleaned up in SDL Trados Translator’s
Workbench to create a legacy translation memory and then upgraded to the new translation
memory format.

And, there are some number of questions and guides in proz.com and other websites, hinting that it is not like import in 2011 translate and export back to bilingual word file.

This will probably be the third client (who provides continuous projects) that I lose.

Client sent me two bilingual files. Converted them to ttx and transferred them to 2009 with their TMs respectively. When exported back and translated in workbench, tags were corrupted (as the client put it). I tried it in MemoQ. I got messier results. It may be my lack of experience with 2007. I started using Trados with 2009. So, 2007 seems so confusing.

Question is simple. In Studio 2011, can I import bilingual word files into 2011, open, translate, export back to bilingual word file and deliver to the client?

Without touching anything of 2007?

Thanx

Hakan


 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:53
English
Answer is simple too... Jul 11, 2012

Yes.

Regards

Paul


 

Hakan Kiyici  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 06:53
Member (2009)
English to Turkish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
thank you Jul 11, 2012

Thank you Paul,

I was rather confused, seeing all the forum postings and other guides. I did not spend money for something that will not facilitate my working.

I shall upgrade, once I receive confirmation from the client.

Best

Hakan Kiyici


 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:53
English
Why not download the trial first... Jul 11, 2012

... and satisfy yourself first? Won't hurt and you can be sure before you upgrade.

http://www.translationzone.com/en/resources/downloads/demodownloads/

Regards

Paul


 

Hakan Kiyici  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 06:53
Member (2009)
English to Turkish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
might not be that simple Jul 12, 2012

Hi Paul,

I downloaded the trial version.

Yes, it does work directly with bilingual file. It converts TM, it does not work directly with it. However, if source is in RTF format, it requires saving file as docx or doc.

There is a problem though.

One of my client sends me the file in normal word format, not bilingual word source file. But, she wants it in CLEAN and UNCLEAN format. In UNCLEAN format, Studio 2011 does not allow saving as bilingual word document. It only exports as SDLXIFFF bilingual file which is not what my client wants.

Is there any solution for this, without resorting to Trados 2007? It is a simple procedure in MemoQ, but it has its own complications.

Thank you

Hakan Kiyici


 

Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 04:53
English to Czech
+ ...
You can always... Jul 12, 2012

... load two types of files in your projects:
1. Pre-segmented file: the target file will be a bilingual/unclean Word file
2. Normal (not pre-segmented file): the target file will be a clean Word file
Rather cumbersome, I know.

Or you can download the tw4winClean App from OpenExchange to clean up the pre-segmented and translated target files.
This would be more elegant.

One of my client sends me the file in normal word format, not bilingual word source file. But, she wants it in CLEAN and UNCLEAN format. In UNCLEAN format, Studio 2011 does not allow saving as bilingual word document. It only exports as SDLXIFFF bilingual file which is not what my client wants.


[Upraveno: 2012-07-12 15:26 GMT]


 

Hakan Kiyici  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 06:53
Member (2009)
English to Turkish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I will check Jul 12, 2012

Thank you for the suggestions.

But, that is my point. This bilingual word is still an issue.

I have Trados 2009 license. It was a total disappointment for the bilingual word files. I was hopeful about 2011. Unless there is no solution, there is no point with this new bilingual word doc feature in 2011.

It is already cumbersome transferring files and Tms between 2007 and 2009. Your suggestion might be less cumbersome. But, it should not be at all.

Best


Stanislav Pokorny wrote:

... load two types of files in your projects:
1. Pre-segmented file: the target file will be a bilingual/unclean Word file
2. Normal (not pre-segmented file): the target file will be a clean Word file
Rather cumbersome, I know.

Or you can download the tw4winClean App from OpenExchange to clean up the pre-segmented and translated target files.
This would be more elegant.

One of my client sends me the file in normal word format, not bilingual word source file. But, she wants it in CLEAN and UNCLEAN format. In UNCLEAN format, Studio 2011 does not allow saving as bilingual word document. It only exports as SDLXIFFF bilingual file which is not what my client wants.


[Upraveno: 2012-07-12 15:26 GMT]


 

George Cook
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:53
French to English
+ ...
Not a perfect solution, but not too arcane Jul 12, 2012

Hakan Kiyici wrote:

Studio 2011 does not allow saving as bilingual word document. It only exports as SDLXIFFF bilingual file which is not what my client wants.



This is not actually true - there is simply no command to do this on the menu. If you have opened a presegmented bilingual Word file and translated in Studio, if you then choose "Save Target as" and save the Word file, the file saved will be bilingual - your "unclean" version. You can then run the aforementioned "tw4win clean" macro to remove the source text and tags for the "clean" version.

I'm not sure why you are so against having to use Trados 2007 at any stage of the process; if it solves the problem why not use it? It was bundled in with Studio 2009 licenses, but I'm given to understand that it isn't with 2011 licences (I'm sure someone will say so if this is not the case), which seems daft, for this precise set of circumstances (which is not that unusual). As bilingual Word files are a legacy format for Trados, it was always likely that there would have to be at least some preparation done in Workbench for these, as the segmentation/bilingual formats are so different.

As for the problem of the client that sends you a non-segmented file and requests clean and unclean versions, my only suggestion is to keep a blank Workbench TM, and run the doc through this to segment it, and then do all the rest in Studio; not a very time-consuming solution, and with the solution for clean/unclean files above, this should mean all bases are covered. As I said, though, you can only do this if you have Trados 2007; if you don't, then you have a problem. Although, if your client is requesting unclean files back, they must have some software that can use them, which suggests they should be able to create them as well - perhaps you could request that your client sends you presegmented files?

[Edited at 2012-07-12 16:16 GMT]


 

Hakan Kiyici  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 06:53
Member (2009)
English to Turkish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
good one Jul 12, 2012

One reason why I try to avoid using 2007 is because I do not know it very well. I did use it for creating Clean/Unclean documents (it comes with 2009) a couple of times. When I started using CAT tools, I installed 2007. It wasn't easy to grasp it. Then, I moved to MemoQ. Once 2009 was out, then I started using Trados. It was much easier to understand and use.

What I did not like 2009 was the compatibility issue with the backward version. It does not seem to have solved it with 2011 completely either.

When 2007 works for me, I surely use it.

I will use "blank workbench tm" suggestion. It will solve the problem at hand.

Thank you for your suggestion.

Best

Hakan




George Cook wrote:

Hakan Kiyici wrote:

Studio 2011 does not allow saving as bilingual word document. It only exports as SDLXIFFF bilingual file which is not what my client wants.



This is not actually true - there is simply no command to do this on the menu. If you have opened a presegmented bilingual Word file and translated in Studio, if you then choose "Save Target as" and save the Word file, the file saved will be bilingual - your "unclean" version. You can then run the aforementioned "tw4win clean" macro to remove the source text and tags for the "clean" version.

I'm not sure why you are so against having to use Trados 2007 at any stage of the process; if it solves the problem why not use it? It was bundled in with Studio 2009 licenses, but I'm given to understand that it isn't with 2011 licences (I'm sure someone will say so if this is not the case), which seems daft, for this precise set of circumstances (which is not that unusual). As bilingual Word files are a legacy format for Trados, it was always likely that there would have to be at least some preparation done in Workbench for these, as the segmentation/bilingual formats are so different.

As for the problem of the client that sends you a non-segmented file and requests clean and unclean versions, my only suggestion is to keep a blank Workbench TM, and run the doc through this to segment it, and then do all the rest in Studio; not a very time-consuming solution, and with the solution for clean/unclean files above, this should mean all bases are covered. As I said, though, you can only do this if you have Trados 2007; if you don't, then you have a problem. Although, if your client is requesting unclean files back, they must have some software that can use them, which suggests they should be able to create them as well - perhaps you could request that your client sends you presegmented files?

[Edited at 2012-07-12 16:16 GMT]


 

Miguel Carmona  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:53
English to Spanish
Bilingual Word files in Studio 2009 "without" using Trados 2007 Jul 12, 2012

Hakan Kiyici wrote:

Question is simple. In Studio 2011, can I import bilingual word files into 2011, open, translate, export back to bilingual word file and deliver to the client?

Without touching anything of 2007?


Hakan Kiyici wrote:

I will use "blank workbench tm" suggestion. It will solve the problem at hand.

Thank you for your suggestion.


Since the very beginning you were asking for a solution "without touching Trados 2007".

If you had not said that, you would have received the above suggestion (i.e., by means of Trados 2007) long ago.


 

Hakan Kiyici  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 06:53
Member (2009)
English to Turkish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
yes, that is the case Jul 12, 2012

Yes, that would probably have been the case.

I just wanted to check if I was missing something out. Not getting a solution to it in the way I wanted, I had to settle with Workbench solution. Back to 2007.

Thank you Miguel
Best

Hakan

Miguel Carmona wrote:

Hakan Kiyici wrote:

Question is simple. In Studio 2011, can I import bilingual word files into 2011, open, translate, export back to bilingual word file and deliver to the client?

Without touching anything of 2007?


Hakan Kiyici wrote:

I will use "blank workbench tm" suggestion. It will solve the problem at hand.

Thank you for your suggestion.


Since the very beginning you were asking for a solution "without touching Trados 2007".

If you had not said that, you would have received the above suggestion (i.e., by means of Trados 2007) long ago.


 


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