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Switching to Studio 2011 - What to be aware of?
Thread poster: 564354352 (X)

564354352 (X)  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 15:23
Danish to English
+ ...
Jul 19, 2012

Now that SDL Trados have released their SP2 for Studio 2011, which at last makes it possible to edit source text on the fly, which I sorely missed in the initial version, I am finally getting ready to let go of Suite 2007 and make the switch.

I have seen loads and loads of issues discussed here about the problems people have experienced with Studio 2011, and I would like to ask those of you translators who have now got a fair amount of experience with Studio 2011 (presuming you have upgraded from earlier versions of Trados) the following questions:

What have you experienced to be the greatest hurdles to overcome in Studio 2011?
And what have you found to be the (simplest) solution(s)?

and

What have you found to be the greatest advantages of switching to Studio 2011?

I'd really appreciate any comments.

Gitte icon_smile.gif


 

Stanislaw Czech, MCIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:23
Member (2006)
English to Polish
+ ...
My first idea Jul 19, 2012

Don't treat it like an upgrade to a new version of the same program. It's much more like switching to a new program and it makes sense to take a day or two and read the SDL's manual while practising all the tasks.

I think that it is worth the effort - I would never go back to 2007.

Good luck!
S


 

564354352 (X)  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 15:23
Danish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
@ Stanislav Jul 20, 2012

Thanks, that does, of course, make good sense.

I have a fair amount of experience with working on PowerPoint and InDesign files in SDLX, which I believe to be the forerunner for Studio, and for such formats, I am sure Studio is probably far better than the old (disgusting) TagEditor. However, practically all my work today is in Word files with quite simple layouts that are easily handled in Suite 2007.

I also had a quick go at working in Studio a while back, firstly to convert a load of TMs from Trados Suite 2007, which went fine after the first few fail-and-error attempts, and secondly just to see whether I felt the hype (from SDL) was justified. I found the layout very annoying, i.e. not being able to see a 'real' text as I worked my way through it. The inability to correct source text as I worked my way through a text was highly frustrating, and I had trouble with expand and shrink segment. I also found that setting up each project was unreasonably fiddly.
These things alone were enough for me to put off switching to Studio.

However, I am aware that Suite 2007 is never going to be updated, and although SDL Trados have kindly helped resolve a number of issues I have had with the program including after the release of Studio, I presume that at some stage or other they will announce that they will no longer provide support for Suite 2007. That seems to be the trend when new programs are developed. So, sooner or later, I will have to make the switch, whether I enjoy that or not, I guess. Big sigh...

I had hoped that experienced Studio 2011 users would contribute their views and experience, but maybe most people feel like you that it is just a question of getting on with it and learning-by-doing.

So, on we go... icon_smile.gif


 

Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:23
Finnish to French
Wordfast Classic Jul 20, 2012

Gitte Hovedskov Hansen wrote:
However, I am aware that Suite 2007 is never going to be updated, and although SDL Trados have kindly helped resolve a number of issues I have had with the program including after the release of Studio, I presume that at some stage or other they will announce that they will no longer provide support for Suite 2007. That seems to be the trend when new programs are developed. So, sooner or later, I will have to make the switch, whether I enjoy that or not, I guess. Big sigh...

Many people in your situation have found a new home in which they immediately felt at home: Wordfast Classic icon_wink.gif
Wordfast Classic is actively being developed. In fact, I installed Office 2013 Preview yesterday and could see Wordfast worked fine with it, out of the box. If you're familiar with Workbench, you will learn how to use Classic in no time.


 

564354352 (X)  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 15:23
Danish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Wordfast Jul 20, 2012

Hi Dominique

I have given Wordfast a try before and as far as I remember, it was 'alright'. The thing is that having invested in one CAT tool and not desperately needing another, I am reluctant to splash out on something that does not immediately appear to offer additional facilities.

But thanks, I will keep this in mind if I get completely fed up with SDL Trados (a not completely unlike scenario icon_rolleyes.gif).

Gitte icon_smile.gif

[Edited at 2012-07-20 07:22 GMT]


 

Enrico C - ECLC  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 22:23
Member (2011)
English to Italian
+ ...
It's not an upgrade. It's a different approach. Jul 20, 2012

Gitte Hovedskov Hansen wrote:

Now that SDL Trados have released their SP2 for Studio 2011, which at last makes it possible to edit source text on the fly, which I sorely missed in the initial version, I am finally getting ready to let go of Suite 2007 and make the switch.

I have seen loads and loads of issues discussed here about the problems people have experienced with Studio 2011, and I would like to ask those of you translators who have now got a fair amount of experience with Studio 2011 (presuming you have upgraded from earlier versions of Trados) the following questions:

What have you experienced to be the greatest hurdles to overcome in Studio 2011?
And what have you found to be the (simplest) solution(s)?

and

What have you found to be the greatest advantages of switching to Studio 2011?

I'd really appreciate any comments.

Gitte icon_smile.gif


Hi Gitte,

As someone else mentioned, migrating from 2007 to Studio 2011 implies adopting a totally new approach to translating. 2007 had the Workbench add-on for word docs and then had to be used with TagEditor for translating of other formats. Studio offers a fully integrated environment that shows everything at a glance. In terms of interface (my humble opinion) it has few competitors. When it works good the software delivers what it promises. It makes you translate faster. The key combinations, the way it offers information etc. helps you work better. I have experienced an increase of productivity that ranges around 30% to 40% (based on daily word output compared to the time required with 2007 to check terminology and shift from a window to the other, slower QA checks etc.). This is when the CAT works.
What to be aware of
a) Random error messages (The software will do its job but will generate errors like those relating to the missing INI files. We all know it doesn't need INI files, yet it generates messages), b) Some Studio 2009/Trados 2007 generated files won't open with Studio 2011 (they will open with other CATs though), this made me lose projects (and money, and perhaps one customer) recently. This happened many times with Studio 2009 and still happens with 2011.
c) The way languages are managed by Studio during setup and file opening is very "Beaurocratic". If the file you want to open is setup for En-US and the TM is En-GB the file won't open. There are ways to overcome the issue but, again, other software manage this in a seamless way.
d) In a number of cases it refused to save files to target. It's hard to accept that once you do a 20k words job are ready for delivery and you get that message. Sometimes it's solvable opening the file with TagEditor, saving and then reopening with Studio, while in other cases i had to deliver the customer all the files to allow their techs to dig into them as i wasn't able to save to target.
e) Support lacks sometimes. Once you have an issue with these bugs you will have to dig into forums rather than having a reliable partner covering the bugs. And that means huge wastes of time when you have incoming deadlines and no time to waste.
f) Doesn't accept TXT TMs. So when the customer sends you a TXT TM you need to first open it in WorkBench, then export in TMX then import in Studio. It's not clear why Studio can't import TXT TMs but it's a time wasting operation.
g) Still does not allow users to create a Multiterm Glossary directly from the Studio interface while setting up a project. You need to open MT and create the new glossary from there. Again, other CATs allow for this without having to open a second software and operate in an external environment.

Overall it's a nice CAT. But to me it's in a permanent Beta. 80% of the times things will go ok, especially with DOC/DOCX files. But the file compatibility issues i had recently with some files left me pretty disappointed and SP2 didn't solve the issue. I do agree it's a major step over TagEditor but sooner or later you'll find yourself using TagEditor to perform operations Studio can't do.





[Edited at 2012-07-20 15:29 GMT]


 

564354352 (X)  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 15:23
Danish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
If it ain't broke, don't fix it Jul 20, 2012

Hi Enrico

Many thanks for all your very helpful insights. These are the sorts of things I feared, so in a sense, it's good to have my fears confirmed. I will be very careful about choosing the right time to switch to Studio... or indeed give up on SDL Trados altogether.

I dread running into situations like the one you describe where a deadline is drawing close, a translation is complete and just needs saving/cleaning and then the CAT won't collaborate. Arrrghhhh...

I am surprised to read that you can see your productivity increasing. Is that because you work mainly with more 'complicated' formats, i.e. anything but Word?
I find it hard to imagine that anything could be significantly faster than the straightforward, no-nonsense TWB...

Trados was never an excellent CAT tool, it had a lot of flaws in the early years (I've worked with various versions from 2000 and until now), but it seemed to be improving with every new version, bugs were fixed, new facilities added etc. until SDL purchased Trados and quit upgrading it, instead merging it with their own product SDLX and finally giving old Trados the boot in favour of Studio. What was the point in buying Trados, then? Weird strategy, except of course, to kill off a competitor. Or maybe they felt that they took the best from each of their packages, e.g. MultiTerm and SDLX, killing off TWB and TagEditor. Still strange, as MultiTerm, as I understand it, is just a very simple Access-based tool that anybody could have developed.

On the support issue, I know that as a rule, you have to buy a support agreement with SDL if you want to be sure to get immediate help. But the few times I have asked for their assistance after going freelance (having been used to the luxury of working for a translation agency that DID have a support agreement), they have been very helpful and have resolved my problems, including spending considerable time working directly on my computer by remote access, all free of charge. Excellent service, even if I had to wait my turn.

The thought of having to resort to using TagEditor to fix problems in Studio would be my worst CAT tool nightmare. I hate TagEditor, it must be the ugliest CAT tool ever developed. Thanks for the warning.

Gitte icon_smile.gif


 

Emma Goldsmith  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:23
Member (2010)
Spanish to English
Don't go with something just because it ain't broke Jul 20, 2012

I wouldn't dream of going back to Trados 2007. There are features in Studio that I would miss too much.
- Autopropagation
- Filter by word(s) / number-only segments / unlocked segments etc. etc.
- avoid formatting problems, bullet list problems suffered in 2007
- avoid the user-unfriendly Tag Editor
- Use multiple TMs at the same time
- Process lots of filetypes, without even needing the programs installed on your machine.
- real time preview of Word and other docs.
- merge small files together and process as one.

The list is almost endless.

Hurdles to overcome? To be honest, I found switching from 2007 to Studio 2009 pretty straightforward. I agree with the others, they're not at all similar so you have to find your way round the new program. To avoid repeating myself about learning how to use Studio, you might like to read the recommendations I made this morning to someone who asked a similar question about switching to Studio.

HTH,
Emma


 

Enrico C - ECLC  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 22:23
Member (2011)
English to Italian
+ ...
Why i work faster and opinions on old and new Trados Jul 20, 2012

Gitte Hovedskov Hansen wrote:

Hi Enrico

Many thanks for all your very helpful insights. These are the sorts of things I feared, so in a sense, it's good to have my fears confirmed. I will be very careful about choosing the right time to switch to Studio... or indeed give up on SDL Trados altogether.

I dread running into situations like the one you describe where a deadline is drawing close, a translation is complete and just needs saving/cleaning and then the CAT won't collaborate. Arrrghhhh...

I am surprised to read that you can see your productivity increasing. Is that because you work mainly with more 'complicated' formats, i.e. anything but Word?
I find it hard to imagine that anything could be significantly faster than the straightforward, no-nonsense TWB...

Trados was never an excellent CAT tool, it had a lot of flaws in the early years (I've worked with various versions from 2000 and until now), but it seemed to be improving with every new version, bugs were fixed, new facilities added etc. until SDL purchased Trados and quit upgrading it, instead merging it with their own product SDLX and finally giving old Trados the boot in favour of Studio. What was the point in buying Trados, then? Weird strategy, except of course, to kill off a competitor. Or maybe they felt that they took the best from each of their packages, e.g. MultiTerm and SDLX, killing off TWB and TagEditor. Still strange, as MultiTerm, as I understand it, is just a very simple Access-based tool that anybody could have developed.

On the support issue, I know that as a rule, you have to buy a support agreement with SDL if you want to be sure to get immediate help. But the few times I have asked for their assistance after going freelance (having been used to the luxury of working for a translation agency that DID have a support agreement), they have been very helpful and have resolved my problems, including spending considerable time working directly on my computer by remote access, all free of charge. Excellent service, even if I had to wait my turn.

The thought of having to resort to using TagEditor to fix problems in Studio would be my worst CAT tool nightmare. I hate TagEditor, it must be the ugliest CAT tool ever developed. Thanks for the warning.

Gitte icon_smile.gif
.



Hi Gitte,
In part i already explained but let me get into some details. You work in a totally integrated interface. This means almost nothing as a sentence. In reality though what happens is that once you setup the files, the TM and the MT glossary (And provided you generated proper TMs and proper terminology, like with any CAT), translating becomes much easier than it was before with the old 2007. 2007 is what i call a dinosaur. And each time a customer asks me to use it again i shiver! It does happen though.
Then you have a set of functions Trados 2007 can only dream of like Autopropagation, Autosuggest (SDL did another of their odd operations here allowing you to create an autosuggest dictionary only if your TM has AT LEAST 25.000 segments in it, de facto, limiting the function a lot. But trust me that when it works it is useful for consistency etc.), and then Merge: with merge you can merge multiple files into one. This in practical terms means you can verify terminology, style, consistency, do QA checks on one single merged file, seamlessly rather than on multiple files. Adding new terms only requires selecting source term, selecting target term (within the segment) then clicking a key combination of choice and the term is inserted. I have built several MT glossaries, some with as many as 10.000 terms inside ONLY because Studio allowed for this to happen. Had i been on 2007 i'd have given up already as it was too lengthy.
I work with documents literally flooded with tags, mostly automotive manuals, marketing and IT (networks, interfaces, whole websites etc.). Often they come badly segmented (like 10 tags in a row, followed by 2 words, then the closing tags at the end then another 2 words etc.). Using the merge function i proofread in much shorter times i'd have done with 2007. Among other formats i handle a lot of: docs, PDF, PPT, inx, XML. Of all of these the files that most often give issues are INXs. Sometimes they don't open, sometimes they won't save to target etc. etc. I had to wait SP2 to be able to edit the source (but not in all cases, also here quite a few limitations that basically do not allow me to work properly again). Less important, yet useful aspect is the fact you can select the colours to assign to tags, text, etc. It allows you to organize your interface in the best way.


Trados versions - The best version i can remember is 6. From 7 on i begun to have endless troubles but at that stage i would still manage to get support from the Trados guys (if i remember well). I had them providing support for almost all the troubles i had (and compensating my lack of knowledge in CATs then). Things changed when SDL bought Trados as you said. At that stage i begun to have lots of bugs and the support became somewhat "colder". I have been invited to buy a support contract many times but there is a point i don't get. One thing is buying a support for things i don't know about a working software or for troubles i cause and they fix for me, while a totally different one is buying a support agreement to get help for software bugs.

The other point relating to support applied to the world of CATs in general is: since there isn't 1 CAT that really does it all that you can buy and forget, many of us work on multiple platforms (Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast, not to mention the countless new ones and the localization tools and the ones in clouding). Are we supposed to buy a support agreement for every single platform we use? You will understand that the logic behind it is irrational. I work with most Trados/SDL suites and am evaluating MemoQ and also planning to expand to a localization one. Should i also buy support for them all? That is simply unacceptable, especially considering the costs of these tools and the fact they are often aimed at 1 person staffed "companies". But that's good material for another time.

Summing up, when the software works it delivers what it promises and that "up to 40% faster" SDL advertises is real in several cases, as far as my experience is concerned. But there are alternatives on the market today. Perhaps it would be worth testing Studio VS something else and see what better deserves your money.

Have a nice day.
Enrico


 

MikeTrans
Germany
Local time: 15:23
Italian to German
+ ...
Another aspect is: changes in your licenses Jul 20, 2012

Hi Gitte,

as good as Studio 2011 may be (and I think it is compared to previous versions), there are still some backward compatibility issues when handling projects received from / to be delivered to the legacy Trados 2007 format (special tagged TTX files, legacy TM formats). For this reason, it's a good idea to *keep* your Trados 2007.

Unfortunately, by upgrading to Trados Studio 2011, you will most probably lose your license for Trados 2007 (also including SDLX), or you will have to pay an extra license fee.
I would negociate with SDL to keep older versions for free in the case of any upgrade.

Greets,
Mike


 

Enrico C - ECLC  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 22:23
Member (2011)
English to Italian
+ ...
That is true... Jul 21, 2012

MikeTrans wrote:

Hi Gitte,

as good as Studio 2011 may be (and I think it is compared to previous versions), there are still some backward compatibility issues when handling projects received from / to be delivered to the legacy Trados 2007 format (special tagged TTX files, legacy TM formats). For this reason, it's a good idea to *keep* your Trados 2007.

Unfortunately, by upgrading to Trados Studio 2011, you will most probably lose your license for Trados 2007 (also including SDLX), or you will have to pay an extra license fee.
I would negociate with SDL to keep older versions for free in the case of any upgrade.

Greets,
Mike


I found out a few weeks ago that once i change PC i won't be able to use my Studio 2009 anymore because (SDL explanation), since i didn't buy a new license but a mere "upgrade" i am not entitled to own two licenses. This means the day my PC breaks or i change it i won't have Studio 2009 (which i bought and paid as an upgrade of 2007). It also means the day a customer asks me to work with 2009 i will have to "re-buy" the license for what is, maybe, just a job that has to be done just not to lose the customer. I forgot this aspect, which is even more disappointing than the support thing. Thanks Mike for bringing it up. More infos on this can be found here http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/229223-why_have_sdl_taken_back_my_license_for_sdl_trados_studio_2009.html.


 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:23
English
Just a little clarification on licensing Jul 21, 2012

Enrico C - ECLC wrote:

MikeTrans wrote:
.....
Unfortunately, by upgrading to Trados Studio 2011, you will most probably lose your license for Trados 2007 (also including SDLX), or you will have to pay an extra license fee.

....
It also means the day a customer asks me to work with 2009 i will have to "re-buy" the license for what is, maybe, just a job that has to be done just not to lose the customer. I forgot this aspect, which is even more disappointing than the support thing. Thanks Mike for bringing it up. More infos on this can be found here http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/229223-why_have_sdl_taken_back_my_license_for_sdl_trados_studio_2009.html.


Hi,

I'd like to make a couple of things clear in case concerned users get the wrong idea from some of these posts. The first thing is that if you upgrade from Trados 2007 to Studio 2011 you will not lose your license for 2007. The process is pretty clear, there are links in the "My Account" area, on this forum (at the top as a sticky) and in the Knowledgebase that make it clear your 2007 version will be upgraded to 2007 Suite and you will also get Studio 2011. The process asks you to return your 2007 license because you are then provided with new ones for 2007 Suite and 2011:

http://kb.sdl.com/kb/article?ArticleId=3927&source=Article&c=12&cid=23

The post that Enrico refers to about having to purchase 2009 again seems to have more information about not needing 2009 if you have 2011. There are some circumstances where you may need 2009, such as when your customer prepares a Project package using custom xml files for example. But these can still be translated, the problem would be that you may not be able to save the target files yourself. The return package would not present this problem for your customer.

If there are concerns over this and if you have specific examples of where you do not think it works please let me know. You may be right... but if we can review this with specific reasons rather than a general worry it will help us to address them as needed.

Regards

Paul


 

564354352 (X)  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 15:23
Danish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Different CATs for different file types? Jul 21, 2012

From what I gather from comments from Emma and Enrico (thanks for those), the real value of Studio 2011 is that it handles formats-other-than-Word quite well and that this is where time can really be saved. That is very useful knowledge (to me extra useful, because I don't have much work in such formats). The autopropagation and autosuggest features sound like interesting stuff, which I will definitely look closely at when I start experimenting with Studio 2011.

Just to clarify, I already own Studio 2011 as well as Suite 2007, so I have no fear of losing my licence, Mike, and as Paul has clarified, this should not be an issue anyhow.

In terms of support agreements... I can understand your rage, Enrico, because it does seem very expensive (I think for SDL Trados it's something like 25 % of the purchase value of your entire program package - per year), although future version upgrades are included in that (not just the free SPs and other minor bug fixes). I'm not sure it's relevant that it becomes even more expensive if you work with many different CAT tools, as that is your choice, not the software supplier's problem. Again, as I have said, I am pleasantly surprised at discovering that SDL are quite willing to help resolve program-related issues for free as and when it fits into their other work.

And Enrico, as you are trying out various CAT tools, I would highly recommend that you subscribe to the (free) monthly newsletter The Toolbox Newsletter written by Jost Zetzsche. You can find a link to subscription here: http://www.internationalwriters.com/toolkit/

In fact, I recommend this newsletter to all translators who are interested in all the software aspects of translation.

[Edited at 2012-07-21 09:33 GMT]


 

Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:23
Finnish to French
Translating other formats than Word in Word Jul 21, 2012

Gitte Hovedskov Hansen wrote:
From what I gather from comments from Emma and Enrico (thanks for those), the real value of Studio 2011 is that it handles formats-other-than-Word quite well and that this is where time can really be saved. That is very useful knowledge (to me extra useful, because I don't have much work in such formats).

If you deal mostly with Word documents and prefer to translate in Word, you can still translate other formats (PowerPoint, Excel, InDesign etc.) using the following workaround:

http://wordfast.fi/blog/cat-tools/2012/03/04/translate-any-format-in-wordfast-classic-with-wordfast-pro-3/

In that video, I use Wordfast Classic, but it works just the same with Trados Workbench. Also note the demo version of Wordfast Pro is sufficient.


 

Strastran (X)
France
Local time: 15:23
French to English
+ ...
I would recommend upgrading Jul 22, 2012

My view of the positives of working with Studio:

- the Editor interface, which I find easy to work with and easy on the eye;
- the lack of errors. I honestly can't remember the last time I had trouble creating a target file, and like others I work with Powerpoint, pdf, Excel, etc. I know error messages have been mentioned above but I find it works superbly well for me, far better than 2007.
- the features like Autosuggest, which have increased my speed immensely;
- its superb ability to populate placeables with minimum fuss. That's a godsend when dealing with lots of tables with numbers in.

And the negatives:

- just one for me: project packages. I have many issues with them, but suffice it to say I'm not a fan.

Overall, I really like working with Studio. In my eyes, it's on another planet to 2007.


 
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