Ongoing compatibility issues with SDL Trados Studio 2011 and Trados 2007
Thread poster: Jacqueline Ball

Jacqueline Ball  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:08
German to English
Aug 29, 2012

Hi there,

I have recently purchased SDL Trados Studio 2011 (before that I was using Wordfast Anywhere. I do not own any other CAT tools or previous versions of Trados). I posted recently regarding the following issue:

"My main client nearly always requires me to deliver unclean bilingual Word documents (they work in Trados 2007 - I send them a bilingual word document, they do a final review and then use the reviewed bilingual document to update their TM and create the final clean deliverable for their end client). In Wordfast Anywhere this was very straightforward - I was able to simply export an unclean Word document that they could work with."

I received some very useful advice to try SDLLXLIFF to Legacy Converter app as a way of getting around the compatibility issues. This appeared to work - I can now deliver an unclean bilingual Word document that my client can use, HOWEVER, it changes the formatting (adding extra blank lines into the document) which means the client has to spend time tidying up the document (I am not able to do that my end as the formatting is not visible). This is acceptable with shorter jobs, but not with longer jobs, and therefore is not a viable long-term solution.

Is there any other solution (bearing in mind, I do not own and do not want to have to purchase any other versions of SDL/Trados/Workbench)?

Thanks very much in advance for any help.

Kind regards,
Jacqueline


 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:08
English
Creating unclean files Aug 29, 2012

Hi Jacqueline,

I don't know Wordfast well enough, but I guess the Classic version worked in a similar way to Trados 2007 (no doubt someone here will correct me if I'm wrong). So you open the word file in Word, translate with the Wordfast toolbar and save it as an unclean file. This is what you do can do with Trados 2007.

Studio, and most modern tools, work in a different environment. So Studio for example, will open the word file and create an sdlxliff. This sdlxliff is the Studio version of the unclean file... but it is not a word file using hidden tags. It is an xliff file. This differentiation is important because when you use the SDLXLIFF to Legacy Converter you are converting the sdlxliff file to an old word based unclean file and not the original word document you opened in Studio.

I think that most users who follow this workflow send two files to their client:

  1. The target file from Studio. This is the fully formatted word document in the target language.
  2. The unclean file created from the legacy Converter to update their TM

This will apparently satisfy most customers, so perhaps this is the process you should follow?

If your customer wants to be able to clean up the unclean file and also recover the target translation (clean file) then this will not work because it will probably be nothing more than plain text.

Perhaps (although I have not tested this and it may not work), if you prefer to translate in Studio, you can prepare the file for translation in Wordfast, translate the unclean file from Wordfast in Studio, and then when you save the target the file will be the unclean file that will clean up into a TM and also clean up into a fully formatted word document.

If Studio doesn't like Wordfast unclean files (starts to sound like a diseaseicon_wink.gif) then the only option would be to prepare the files in Trados 2007 and then translate these in Studio.

But I think it's worth exploring whether you can send these:

  1. The target file from Studio. This is the fully formatted word document in the target language.
  2. The unclean file created from the legacy Converter to update their TM

Regards

Paul


 

Jacqueline Ball  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:08
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Re: [TW] Ongoing compatibility issues with SDL Trados Studio 2011 and Trados 2007 Aug 29, 2012

Hi Paul,

Thanks very much for the speedy response. Much appreciated.

Your explanation was very clear - it looks like the only to get around this is to deliver two files (the bilingual file for their TM and the clean for delivery to the end client), although this won't quite fit with their current workflow...

I was not however sure what you meant by the below:

"Perhaps (although I have not tested this and it may not work), if you prefer to translate in Studio, you can prepare the file for translation in Wordfast, translate the unclean file from Wordfast in Studio, and then when you save the target the file will be the unclean file that will clean up into a TM and also clean up into a fully formatted word document."

What do you mean by 'prepare the file for translation in Wordfast'? (I use Wordfast Anywhere, by the way, the free online version, not the desktop version). In WFA, you simply upload a Word doc, translate it, and then export either as a clean document or as a bilingual document.

Sorry if that's a dim question...

Thanks again,
Jacqueline


 

Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:08
Finnish to French
Use Wordfast Classic to prepare files for translation Aug 29, 2012

Jacqueline Ball wrote:
I was not however sure what you meant by the below:

"Perhaps (although I have not tested this and it may not work), if you prefer to translate in Studio, you can prepare the file for translation in Wordfast, translate the unclean file from Wordfast in Studio, and then when you save the target the file will be the unclean file that will clean up into a TM and also clean up into a fully formatted word document."

What do you mean by 'prepare the file for translation in Wordfast'? (I use Wordfast Anywhere, by the way, the free online version, not the desktop version). In WFA, you simply upload a Word doc, translate it, and then export either as a clean document or as a bilingual document.

What Paul meant (I assume) is that you would use Wordfast Classic, which indeed works very much like Trados 2007, as he correctly guessed. You don't need the full version of Wordfast Classic to prepare a Word document for translation (in Studio), running it in demo mode would be sufficient.


 

Jacqueline Ball  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:08
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Re: [TW] Ongoing compatibility issues with SDL Trados Studio 2011 and Trados 2007 Aug 29, 2012

Hi Dominque,

Thanks very much for your response.

I have downloaded the demo version of Wordfast Classic. When you say I need to 'prepare the Word document for translation (in Studio)', how exactly do I go about doing this? Again, sorry if this is a stupid question. I have tried looking in the manual and searching online, but can't find any information on this. Hopefully I'm not missing anything obvious.

Thanks in advance,
Jacqueline


 

Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:08
Finnish to French
Using Wordfast Classic to prepare documents Aug 29, 2012

Jacqueline Ball wrote:
I have downloaded the demo version of Wordfast Classic. When you say I need to 'prepare the Word document for translation (in Studio)', how exactly do I go about doing this? Again, sorry if this is a stupid question. I have tried looking in the manual and searching online, but can't find any information on this. Hopefully I'm not missing anything obvious.

Your question is not stupid and the answer is not obvious. You first need to enable the CopySourceWhenNoMatch command in Pandora's box (Setup > PB):

CopySourceWhenNoMatch.png

You can then use the Translate command (Tools > Tools):

WFC,%20Translate.png

You will obtain a segmented document with source texts duplicated in target segments, which you should be able to translate in Studio.


 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:08
English
Maybe be a little careful with this Wordfast Workflow Aug 30, 2012

Hi Jacqueline, Dominique,

I thought I'd add to my knowledge a little this morning so I downloaded a copy of Wordfast Classic and ran a few tests.

I had some problems with this and Wordfast didn't do this in a way that made it possible for me to work through this process to the end successfully. But I don't think this is the right forum for a discussion on how to use Wordfast Classic so I'll contact Dominique off forum to make sure I have this right. If this should work then it may be an acceptable workaround for Wordfast users who prefer to use Studio

Regards

Paul


 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:08
English
After a little assistance from Dominique... Aug 30, 2012

... the missing part (for me anyway) was that I had to remove the underscore from the copy source to target command in Pandoras Box... it's editable in the screen shown in his screenshot.

My test files segmented and copied source to target using "Trados like" markup. So I think this is possible, but I would still add a word of caution. I ran a simple test and a more complex test. I think, but I'm happy to stand corrected here, that the Wordfast route doesn't handle footnotes and in some cases headers as Workbench does. In Studio it looked as though the source contained different tags to the target, and even copying source to target again to make sure they were the same left me with final files from Workbench that were incorrect. There may be more differences, but I only spent 30 minutes or so looking at this so it's by no means exhaustive nor conclusive.

I think this sort of problem is inevitable when you hop from tool to tool, but it's an interesting workflow and for some files it may work fine. I think the only way to guarantee you give your client what they need is to use Trados Workbench to create the bilingual doc files and nothing else.

But as we said at the start... I think it's worth considering this first:

  • The target file from Studio. This is the fully formatted word document in the target language.
  • The unclean file created from the legacy Converter to update their TM

If this is acceptable for your customer then I think this is by far the easiest process if you wish to use Studio for your work.

Regards

Paul


 

Jacqueline Ball  Identity Verified
Local time: 10:08
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you! Aug 30, 2012

Hi Paul, Dominque,

Thank you both very much for taking the time to reply to my query in such detail. I really appreciate it.

I have carried out a test using Wordfast as you suggested and sent it to my client - I have advised that this workaround may not handle certain formatting.

Unfortunately the option of sending two documents (the clean target file, and the unclean file using Legacy Converter) is not viable for this client, as they review all work before delivery to their end client, so want to be able to do that in one document and then update the TM and create the final clean document from that reviewed file.

Anyway, thanks again for all your help. Hopefully this Wordfast workaround will do the trick.

Kind regards,
Jacqueline


 


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