Studio 2011 SP2 Refresh and Frame10
Thread poster: Anninili
Anninili
Local time: 15:46
English to German
+ ...
Oct 8, 2012

.. these two won't come together, will they?

Hai,

okay, after installing SP2, deinstalling SP2 (because of the Index thing), reinstalling SP1 and now finally installing SP2 Refresh (this time patiently waiting until all my projects were finished), I started a new project.

As it is an update project and I have been working on the previous versions either, I expected at least 90% of PM, maybe 7% of CM and 3% to translated. It would have worked, really.

Unfortunately Studio 2011 SP2 Refresh now does not "recognize"/convert/what-hell-ever "thin spaces" that always have been used all over the documents and therefore are also in the TM and also the previous documents. Instead of converting the thin space into a tag (as it did in SP1) it now creates a strange sign, like a "degree" sign (sorry, I do not know the english name, it would be Gradzeichen in German, a small cero) and then screws up the matches.

I used the same settings as for SP1 projects (I checked per screenshots, since SP2 I only do things with screenshots, because I often tend to think I suffering from amnesia), I am aware that now there are more options to be set but not in the Project setting > File types> Adobeblabla >General section? I fighted my way through the english online-help, trying to find the German corresponding options, not that easy as the manuals describes more than I have found, but I do not see any possibility for enabling this again?

Now I have 6 manuals waiting for an update that normally would be done quickly but this is will trow me back and has effects on my TM that I really do not want. Solutions? Anybody? Another bug? Or just a well hidden and pourly documented feature?

Please do not tell me, that I again have to deinstall SP2 Refresh and wait for another update? I really have other things to do than playing around with Trados... And working with SP1 is not really fun either, as we use conditional text (that either will be displayed, although it is hidden or does not reconvert mifs...)

Cheers,
Anneliese

PS: Found that suppressing hyphen also gets no tag anymore but a nasty empty space...
PPS: I did not check the index thing so far...

[Edited at 2012-10-08 10:59 GMT]

[Edited at 2012-10-08 11:04 GMT]


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Anninili
Local time: 15:46
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER
Found what might causing the problem... Oct 9, 2012

Hai,

I went through more detailed research to find a solution for my problem, as I really dislike to de-install the software again.

What I found: a file type option, I used before, is not longer available in

Studio > Dateitypen (File types?) > Spezifische Dateitypen (Special file types?)> FrameMaker MIF 8-10-Einstellungen (settings). I am missing the

"Show/display(?) special characters as text" Option

Has anyone else been using this option before? (Btw: Is anyone else using Framemaker and Trados at all?) Does anyone know what happened to this option? Workaround? Does it maybe have something to do with the new, but undocumented Style option in the tab?

I mean SP2R is an update not a complete new version. For new versions I plan some time for getting used to new functions and features, and learn about them... But for an update of a software I bought just 10 month ago? I must say, I spent less time learning and getting used from Trados 2007 to 2011 then I am spending now to get SP2/ SP2R running.

Cheers,
Anneliese


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Anninili
Local time: 15:46
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER
Me again... ;-) Oct 9, 2012

I was told by a really nive lady from SDL in Germany that my prefered option really was removed as Trados now does support special characters. Well obviously only if you have same secret settings enabled somewhere which so far are not documented/described.

So this means for me to de-install the SP2R as I have to go on with my work and I cannot have my TM screwed up now. I hate this, I really really hate this - even de-installing does not work properly ...

Not my day today...

[Edited at 2012-10-09 12:10 GMT]


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philwhite
Local time: 15:46
German to English
Yes, great isn't it? Oct 12, 2012

Hi Anneliese,

Yes, I had the same problem as you with index markers and waited patiently for SP2R. We now have the same problem that you have with thousands of pages of FrameMaker manuals with special characters that are now no longer shown as tags. Also, I have come across another infuriating bug in SP2R that is crippling my productivity.

Fortunately, we do not currently have any projects running with FrameMaker manuals, so the bug you describe is not yet an issue for us.

If it becomes an issue, I shall undoubtedly end up exporting the entire translation memory to TMX, running some powerful search and replace tools over it and re-importing it. This is not the sort of thing we should be doing!

Theoretically, I believe that the following approach should work, although I stress that I have not tried it.

1. Install SP1 ( in which the filter worked)
2. Tools -> Options -> File Types
3. Select the FrameMaker filter on the right and export the settings
4. Install SP2R
5. Tools -> Options -> File Types
6. Import the settings you just saved and move them down to just above the existing settings
7. Just to be on the safe side, deactivate the SP2R settings.

Let me know whether that does the trick.

Kopf hoch!

Phil


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Anninili
Local time: 15:46
English to German
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Does not work for me... Oct 12, 2012

... but to be honest, I am not sure whether I really disabled the SP2R settings.. hmm.

Hi Phil,

I went through your approach last Tuesday evening, as - after re-installing SP1 for the 100th time - I quickly encountered the annoying problem with the conditional text with SP1 (which I had nearly forgotten so far) and started wondering what might be quicker: going through the trouble of de-installing SP1 and re-installing SP2R (remembering the settings export function without knowing whether the conditional text problem would be solved ) or discussing the conditional text settings with the technical author team (which basically means: they have to delete conditions what they really do not want to do...).

I went for the de-install-re-install solution, thought it might be worth trying. Well. The exporting was no problem, importing was easy (but did I disable the setting or not?). The result was not really what I hoped for: I had other options enabled than I expected to be enabled and certainly not the options I had enabled in SP1 and the file did not show any of my former tags. That is why I hadn't mentioned it anymore.

So there you go, I am working on SP1 again, had my discussion about conditional text and might go for the export-TM-and-clean-it-with-okapi-solution in the near future as we only work with Frame here (but before that I will check the settings import again, making sure whether the SP2R setting are disabled!).

Thanks anyway!
Anneliese

Btw. is it just me or is de-installing SP2R really such a problem? I mean, I thought I might be an expert in de-intalling SP2 by now, but I never get it de-installed in one go, there are always some registry entries left, some information whatever, so that I cannot install SP1 because "SDL has detected a newer version of blablabla". I have always to call the technical support to clean up my system... Usually I am not that stupid with software.

[Edited at 2012-10-12 15:50 GMT]


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philwhite
Local time: 15:46
German to English
Ah yes! Oct 14, 2012

I had forgotten the bug with conditional text in SP1.

The only way I can think of to solve the problem would be my initial suggestion, namely to export the entire translation memory to TMX, to perform a series of search and replace operations on all the characters that are causing you problems and then to re-import the TMX (this gives you both versions in the translation memory).

I had to do something very similar when my customers moved from FrameMaker 7 to FrameMaker 10, as the tagging was very different. You will have to identify the codes that are used for the special characters, and you may need to use some sophisticated regular expressions to account for the indexes of the tags.

To do this sort of work, I always use "Search and Replace" from Funduc Software. This is an extremely inexpensive piece of shareware that has never failed me. You do, however, needs to have a good grasp of regular expressions to do anything but simple searching and replacing.

Another alternative may be for you to delete the hidden conditions before you process the MIF files. The customer requires these to be present in the source files, but presumably does not require them to be present in the translated files. If you use SP1 after deleting hidden conditional text, you should have a usable file.

Either way, it is only a stopgap until such time as SDL finally writes a FrameMaker filter that works.


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SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:46
English
I would be grateful if someone could... Oct 14, 2012

... provide an example file for me that exhibits this behaviour?

Thank you

Paul
pfilkin@sdl.com


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philwhite
Local time: 15:46
German to English
Any file with special characters Oct 15, 2012

Hi Paul,

We have no current jobs with the problem, and it is relatively humane in terms of the volume of segments affected. You would do best with a file from Anneliese.

The problem affects any file that contains BR, TABs, protected spaces and any such special characters that were affected by the old option "Show special characters as text".

If I have a manual in which the customer uses plenty of soft returns (BR) characters or whatever, and I have translated this manual in the past with the "show special characters as tags" option turned on, I have a TM in which all these characters are recorded as tags. (In our case, this is just a few dozen instances), but Anneliese seems to have a TM full of them.

If I now open a manual that I have translated with this option set in SP2R, where the option no longer exists, Every segment in which such a character occurs throws a fuzzy match rather than a 100% match (formatting penalty).

As I say, it affects all special characters covered by the old option. SP2R handles the characters correctly, but the behaviour is no longer compatible with the existing TM.

Just create a FrameMaker file with a TAB in the middle of a sentence, translate it in SP2, and then open it in SP2R ... No 100% match.

Phil


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Anninili
Local time: 15:46
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Tomorrow Oct 15, 2012

Sorry, today I am in a rush (release stress) but I will be able to provide you with a test file tomorrow. The procedure is basically as Phil described it and yes it will be a problem for usunless I have something really missunderstood when preparing my translation projects.

Our TM is nearly 7 years old, we did an upgrade from 2006 to 2007 and now 2011 with lots of TM reoganizing and cleaning, if I have to plan more clean-up time for the TM again, my boss will not be that happy...

Cheers,
Anneliese


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philwhite
Local time: 15:46
German to English
Yes, it's all about compatibility Oct 15, 2012

Yes, as Anneliese says, it is all about compatibility with existing TMs. I have lost count of the number of hours I have lost manipulating translation memories to account for upgrades to TRADOS or upgrades to the file formats used by the customers. SDL clearly has no control over the latter problem (such as migrating from FrameMaker 7 to a later version), but it should be possible to assess the impact of any change to filters, which may in themselves make sense (it is indeed much easier to handle special characters without tags in this case) on existing translation memories, which in my case cover a total in excess of a million segments, much of which comes from FrameMaker.

The correct handling of special characters is essentially an improvement, but without backward compatibility to existing translation memories, it is a nightmare.


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Anninili
Local time: 15:46
English to German
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Not sure about that... Oct 15, 2012

philwhite wrote:

The correct handling of special characters is essentially an improvement, but without backward compatibility to existing translation memories, it is a nightmare.


I really wonder about the "correct handling" - when I open a Frame10 file in SP2R the e.g. n-spaces are not shown as tag anymore, okay (so far I agree), but I now get a full space instead shown in the source text, or the lets take the protected spaces: they are displayed as "-º" in my source or when I have suppressed the separation for a word, the word now appears "Trennungs____unterdrückung" (__ was the bit where my tag was before).

I am not sure whether this is how it really should look like, nevertheless I inserted these strange signs into/kept the full spaces in my target text/translation (hoping that this miraculously would lead to my requested format) only to find out that they will not be "converted" into the correct character/whatever after saving the file as MIF again, so I got a text full of full spaces where it should be n-spaces (really, and no discussion with tec author team about this), lots -º instead of protected spaces and words with nice ____ lines in-between (which even I had to admit look really odd in manuals). Am I missing a step somewhere?

I am encountering two problems here
1) TM not compatible to my "new" files after SP2R installation (nasty, big problem)
2) "correct handling of special characters" seems not really correct to me (strange problem) but maybe I missing some other hidden option here?

Anyway, tomorrow I will provide a small nice file that hopefully shows both of my problems.

Have a nice evening,
Anneliese


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philwhite
Local time: 15:46
German to English
Any news? Nov 1, 2012

Have we got any more about this one? We are expecting an update of a large FrameMaker project before the end of the year and don't want to run headlong into this.

Phil


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Anninili
Local time: 15:46
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Unfortunately... Nov 5, 2012

...no

No news, still fighting with SP1, conditional text but at least lots of 100% matches. SP2R is not usable for us, despite the incompatibility with our "old" TM it really still does not handle special characters corrrectly (n-spaces are not recognized as n-spaces but will be displayed as normal spaces, this is a no-go for us as we use n-spaces for formatting reasons, it is part of our corporate design thing... Conversion of other "special characters" also did not work correctly).

So still here and waiting (and attending to some webinars about TM-tuning, maybe it will be useful later when everything is sorted out and we need to get rid of something or so...).

Cheers,
Anneliese


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