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How to hide usage of machine translation in Trados Studio 2009.
Thread poster: europeanPRO

europeanPRO
Latvia
Local time: 09:49
Russian to German
+ ...
Nov 28, 2012

Hi, I am translating a text with a lot of numbers and formating and at these context I find very useful to use machine translation like Google. Thanks to Trados Studio it is not a problem at all, but I will send that working file to my client and I would not like that he/she sees near the translated segment letter AT (automatic translation). What can I do about it? Even after I retype the translation, those letters AT are still near the source segment...

 

Vadim Kadyrov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 09:49
Member (2011)
English to Russian
+ ...
The thing is Nov 28, 2012

that AT also indicates that this translation is already stored in your memory.

As you may know, there are 100% repetitions and AT repetitions in Studio 2009. AT repetitions are even more "identical" than 100%.

In other words, you may claim that these two letters appeared because you have re-processed the translation after you have translated it in Studio, in other words, that you have translated the file TWICE. That`s why these AT appeared in every segment.

AT does not always imply that you used machine translation tools.


 

Steve Kerry  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:49
German to English
Adverse publicity.. Nov 28, 2012

Vadim Kadyrov wrote:

that AT also indicates that this translation is already stored in your memory.

As you may know, there are 100% repetitions and AT repetitions in Studio 2009. AT repetitions are even more "identical" than 100%.

In other words, you may claim that these two letters appeared because you have re-processed the translation after you have translated it in Studio, in other words, that you have translated the file TWICE. That`s why these AT appeared in every segment.

AT does not always imply that you used machine translation tools.





Agree with you Vadim, I get AT hits and I don't use machine translation. I suppose the clue might be the quantity though...

@ Rodjer - Perhaps publishing the fact on the Internet isn't the ideal way to keep quiet about your use of machine translation? - I hope your client doesn't read ProZ! Just a thought...

Steve


 

Vadim Kadyrov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 09:49
Member (2011)
English to Russian
+ ...
Sorry, Nov 28, 2012

indeed, "google translate" does appear in this area - and it seems nothing can be done. Still, you can re-translate your document once again when your TM is full.

Trados will in this case use units from TM.


 

europeanPRO
Latvia
Local time: 09:49
Russian to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
nice Nov 29, 2012

Thanks a lot for all your answers.

 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:49
English
Confused? Nov 29, 2012

Vadim Kadyrov wrote:

As you may know, there are 100% repetitions and AT repetitions in Studio 2009. AT repetitions are even more "identical" than 100%.

In other words, you may claim that these two letters appeared because you have re-processed the translation after you have translated it in Studio, in other words, that you have translated the file TWICE. That`s why these AT appeared in every segment.



Hi,

I wonder if you are confusing CM with 100%. AT stands for Automated Translation which means that Studio has been able to translate the source segment without drawing on any information from your TM at all (other than settings in place that can define rules for this).

Reprocessing the information has nothing to do with this at all.

Normally this would mean you have connected to a Machine Translation engine but if the content is entirely based on a placeable (so nothing in the source other than the placeable) then this can also lead to an AT match.

Regards

Paul


 

europeanPRO
Latvia
Local time: 09:49
Russian to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
So what's the way? Nov 29, 2012

SDL Support wrote:

Vadim Kadyrov wrote:

As you may know, there are 100% repetitions and AT repetitions in Studio 2009. AT repetitions are even more "identical" than 100%.

In other words, you may claim that these two letters appeared because you have re-processed the translation after you have translated it in Studio, in other words, that you have translated the file TWICE. That`s why these AT appeared in every segment.



Hi,

I wonder if you are confusing CM with 100%. AT stands for Automated Translation which means that Studio has been able to translate the source segment without drawing on any information from your TM at all (other than settings in place that can define rules for this).

Reprocessing the information has nothing to do with this at all.

Normally this would mean you have connected to a Machine Translation engine but if the content is entirely based on a placeable (so nothing in the source other than the placeable) then this can also lead to an AT match.


Regards

Paul


So how can we manage such a situation?


 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:49
English
You mean what's the way... Nov 29, 2012

... to hide the fact you used MT from your client? I don't think it would be correct for me to explain how to do this... although the obvious way has already been mentioned once in this thread.

Why do you want to hide this? The other information that is stored is whether or not you have had to make any changes to the MT or not, so this is also visible which allows your client to see you have still made sure the translation was correct.

Why do you want to hide this?

Regards

Paul


 

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:49
Member (2004)
English to Italian
the only way... Nov 29, 2012

it's to delete the target translation after having confirmed all the segment and retranslate... all the AT will turn into CM...

 

europeanPRO
Latvia
Local time: 09:49
Russian to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
answer Nov 29, 2012

SDL Support wrote:

... to hide the fact you used MT from your client? I don't think it would be correct for me to explain how to do this... although the obvious way has already been mentioned once in this thread.

Why do you want to hide this? The other information that is stored is whether or not you have had to make any changes to the MT or not, so this is also visible which allows your client to see you have still made sure the translation was correct.

Why do you want to hide this?

Regards

Paul


Well some clients just when they see the word automatic translation they think like I just used google and thats it. And sometimes it impossible to explain that for many segments especially in segments, which have a lot of numbers it saves a lot of time. For examples in WordFast It also shows AT but IF I correct the segment it disappears because now it is my translation. But why in Trados it is different?


 

Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:49
French to Polish
+ ...
CAT hopping... test editor... Nov 29, 2012

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:

it's to delete the target translation after having confirmed all the segment and retranslate... all the AT will turn into CM...


You can also do it easily in every CAT hopping scenario.

E.g., in DVX:
- import SDLXLIFF in DVX;
- translate the file;
- make a copy of the project (a good practice);
- use the Row selector in order to filter the segment marked as machine translated ones;
- select all the segments (Ctrl+Home, Ctrl+Shift+End);
- right click and (in the context menu) select: Segment status, Reset segment status;
- right click and (in the context menu) select: Segment status, Finished.
- export the SDLXLIFF file;
It's just a general procedure, some variants are possible (e.g. when segments are split etc.).
You can also set the reset segment status in Trados Studio (select the untranslated files right click in the grid).

You can also open the file directly in a decent text editor and search and replace (or delete) the status (I don't remember the exact strings but it's really easy to find).

Cheers
GG


 

LEXpert  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:49
Member (2008)
Croatian to English
+ ...
@Paul - possible reasons Nov 29, 2012

SDL Support wrote:
Why do you want to hide this? The other information that is stored is whether or not you have had to make any changes to the MT or not, so this is also visible which allows your client to see you have still made sure the translation was correct.
Why do you want to hide this?
Paul


Some clients' translator agreements prohibit the use web-based MT due to confidentiality concerns alone, irrespective of any quality considerations.


 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:49
English
To be honest I have... Nov 29, 2012

... enough imagination to know why some people might want to hide the fact they have used MT. What is really surprising is how some users seem quite comfortable with the idea of doing so and in particular the lengths they would go to cover their tracks and also share how they do it with others.

Is it just me or does this seem wrong to anyone? Even if there are perfectly innocent reasons for using MT in the first place I think the reasons why a client would not want this should be respected. Even using simple technology to automate copy and paste from the web version of Google, which would obviously not need any fiddling to remove an audit trail, is something I think you should think twice about if you have been specifically asked not to use MT.

Regards

Paul


 

ErikAnderson3
Local time: 23:49
Might be more about avoiding confusion, rather than avoiding obligations. Nov 29, 2012

SDL Support wrote:

... enough imagination to know why some people might want to hide the fact they have used MT. What is really surprising is how some users seem quite comfortable with the idea of doing so and in particular the lengths they would go to cover their tracks and also share how they do it with others.

Is it just me or does this seem wrong to anyone? Even if there are perfectly innocent reasons for using MT in the first place I think the reasons why a client would not want this should be respected. Even using simple technology to automate copy and paste from the web version of Google, which would obviously not need any fiddling to remove an audit trail, is something I think you should think twice about if you have been specifically asked not to use MT.

Regards

Paul


Adding 2p to the pot:

If a translator has been specifically asked not to use, or is contractually prohibited from using, MT, then I do quite agree with Paul here. When I first ran across this thread yesterday, I thought the thread was about avoiding client restrictions, as Paul describes above.

However, I think the situation that Rodjer is describing here is one where the client has not stated yea or nay regarding MT, and where the client might be rather naive about the translation process and not understand 1) that MT can sometimes save a little bit of time in getting a (*very*) rough draft, 2) that a human must go through that MT output and often make substantial changes, and 3) that MT cannot (at present) produce clean translated text. I've run into lots of interesting, and occasionally amusing, misapprehensions about machine translation, with folks unfamiliar with the translation trade who can be completely convinced that MT is the way to go, right now. Some of these people could very well interpret a translator's use of MT as evidence that the translator 1) is being paid too much, 2) is somehow incompetent, 3) might even be completely superfluous. In most cases, this interpretation is fundamentally flawed, but this is also something that can be difficult to get across.

In these situations, I confess I do sympathize with Rodjer, and were I in his shoes, I too would be looking for ways of not advertising my use of MT.

To mangle a metaphor, sometimes it's easier to mislead a confused horse than it is to clear up that confusion.

Cheers,

-- Erik Anderson

[Edited at 2012-11-29 19:12 GMT]


 

europeanPRO
Latvia
Local time: 09:49
Russian to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
thanks for support Nov 29, 2012

ErikAnderson3 wrote:





In these situations, I confess I do sympathize with Rodjer, and were I in his shoes, I too would be looking for ways of not advertising my use of MT.



Well in my situation nobody prohibited me to use MT. I had some cases in which I had to explain my clients that I used MT only for numbers and tags. They saw this ""AT" only near the segments with numbers and still I had problems and needed to explain that for the other part I have clean translation and I had even somehow to prove it...
Well I thought this could be a common issue for some translators and in Wordfast it is logically solved. But as I see Trados has another view...


 
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