Trados Studio 2011: Suppress segmentation inside internal tags
Thread poster: jkmsff

jkmsff
Local time: 21:05
Mar 13, 2013

Hello,

I'm looking for a way to suppress segmentation if the break character is located inside an internal tag.

Example:
[p]You can assign names to color values in the [uicontrol]Color definition: Names and values[/uicontrol] list.[/p]

[p] is an external tag, [uicontrol] is an internal tag. With default segmentation rules, the segment breaks behind the colon, because the colon indicates a segment end. I would like to keep the whole text inside the external tag as one segment. Paragraph-based segmentation might be a solution, but that is not an option for me.

Do you have any idea how to do this in Trados Studio 2011 Professional?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
Joachim

[Edited at 2013-03-13 15:53 GMT]


 

Lars Hoej  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 21:05
English to Danish
+ ...
Deletion of colon in segmentation rules Mar 13, 2013

I have deleted colon from the segmentation rules for my TM's as the rule seems to create more problems than it solves.
Go to Translation Memory Settings, Language Resources, Segmentation - and delete colon.

Kind regards,
Lars


 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:05
English
One of the reasons for ... Mar 14, 2013

Lars Hoej wrote:

I have deleted colon from the segmentation rules for my TM's as the rule seems to create more problems than it solves.
Go to Translation Memory Settings, Language Resources, Segmentation - and delete colon.

Kind regards,
Lars


... extracting this rule as a separate entry in the segmentation rules is because it's a common rule that some users want split and others don't, often depending on the content. So like this it's easy to remove.

However, my reading of the original posters question is that they only want this to split when the colon is inbetween a specific tag. This is harder and very much depends on the filetype, if possible at all.

For example, were the brackets used, [uicontrol] used instead of <uicontrol> because the poster didn't know who to get around this forums requirement for showing these angle brackets, or because the file is a text file of some sort that uses square brackets?

The deletion of the colon rule may well be the best answer here too... but if it's only in the case of these tags then more information would be helpful.

Regards

Paul


 

jkmsff
Local time: 21:05
TOPIC STARTER
Segmentation rules, and clarification of my example Mar 14, 2013

Thanks a lot for your replies.

Lars,
I've experimented with leaving away the colon segmentation rule some time ago (in Trados 2006). My impression was that a colon occurred in the middle of a sentence more often than at the end of a sentence. However, I decided to leave the colon rule in place because I find it easier to merge segments manually than to split them.


Paul,
You've spotted correctly that I struggeled with entering XML markup in my post. You can read the square brackets as angular brackets.

The source format is usually XML with a custom DTD. The tags appear correctly after Trados has converted the files to SDLXLIFF. The issue I've described is about segmentation and probably less about parsing the input file.


I see that Trados 2011 defines break characters using Regular Expressions. I assume there is no RegEx notation to recognize internal tags?


Kind regards
Joachim


[Edited at 2013-03-14 08:01 GMT]


 

Alexandre Oberlin  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 21:05
English to French
+ ...
String tags trimmed off beginning of segment Mar 17, 2013

Hi all,

I have another similar problem with the eager default segmenting behavior in Trados Studio 2009 SP3 (I am still not convinced to upgrade).

The text I am translating contains frequently used strings which appear as tags. Those tags are sometimes translated and sometimes left as is, but the problem remains the same. For instance, if the tag is the subject and the first word in a sentence, Trados Studio will trim it off and make it impossible for me to add an article or invert the words (ex : 'Trucmuche engines' -> "Les moteurs Trucmuche").

I have taken a quick look in the segmentation rules but it seems to be about punctuation signs only.

Any hint ?

Cheers,

Alexandre

--
Alexandre Oberlin
http://www.migo.info


[Edited at 2013-03-17 21:01 GMT]


 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:05
English
A hint... Mar 18, 2013

Alexandre Oberlin wrote:

...

For instance, if the tag is the subject and the first word in a sentence, Trados Studio will trim it off and make it impossible for me to add an article or invert the words (ex : 'Trucmuche engines' -> "Les moteurs Trucmuche").

...



Hi,

If the tags have been externalised and moved into the stucture then use the display filter to show all content instead of all segments. This may show you the tags and they be dragged back into the segment and used.

Regards

Paul


 

Alexandre Oberlin  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 21:05
English to French
+ ...
Looks like it is "smart pairing" related Mar 18, 2013

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your answer. I did not know about the display filter because I usually don't use toolbars.

Since I am working with TTX files, the problem might be related to "Smart pairing":
In http://producthelp.sdl.com/SDL%20Trados%20Studio/client_en/File_Types/TTX-ITD/PreparePost-ProcessTTX.htm, I read:
2. Select File types > TRADOStag > Compatibility from the navigation tree. The Compatibility settings are displayed on the right.
3. Select the Treat all inline tags as placeholders option to disable smart tag pairing or clear the option to enable tag pairing. Refer to the section above to determine if you should enable or disable this option.
I did enjoy smart pairingicon_wink.gif I shall try to disable it next time.

For now, the project is about to be delivered and your brilliant solution spares me the overhead of opening many target TTXs in Trados Freelance 6.5 to fix those issues.

Thanks a lot!

Alexandre


 

Alexandre Oberlin  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 21:05
English to French
+ ...
Will segment merging and splitting come back one day? Apr 20, 2013

Hi all,

While Paul's suggestion above did spare me some time in the last occasion, it does look like a trick. I tried it again today and it resulted in file corruption. It seems you have to be very careful when showing All Contents, much more that if segment merging was more generally available.

I have always wondered why the segment merging capabilities had been so drastically restricted in Trados Studio relative to previous versions of the software. My guess was that it was to please the agencies who believe their translators don't know what they are doingicon_wink.gif

For the average translator confronted to all kinds of bad formatting from the WYSIWYG paradigm and all the processing prior to translation, segment splitting and merging were lifesavers. This is of course all the more true with complex DTP documents.

Can someone tell me if the current/next version of Trados Studio has brought/will bring back some segment merging/splitting capabilities. Such things are almost impossible to determine from the documentation.

Cheers,

Alexandre


 

Alexandre Oberlin  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 21:05
English to French
+ ...
Still no segment merging in TS 2011 May 5, 2013

Hi all,

Since I am currently testing an upgrade, I answer my own question in the hope that it will be useful to someone.

First Trados Studio 2011 does not seem in my case to be slower than TS 2009, as I had read here and there.

Second, it is still not generally possible to merge broken sentences. This is extremely annoying and incomprehensible because DTP/WYSIWIG documents regularly end up with lots of hard line breaks in sentences, and for this reason cannot translated e.g. in French without messing up the TM with irrelevant partial translations.

I have not explored yet the source modification option. Is this a practicable option?

I still have to check if the numerous other issues with Trados Studio 2009 have been resolved, but I have already some in TS2011 that were not in TS2009...

Alexandre


 

Eileen Cartoon  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:05
Italian to English
Actually it is possible to merge broken sentences in 2011 May 5, 2013

And this for me is by itself a key reason to upgrade. You have to enable "edit source text" in the project profile and then you can edit the source. For example with a broken sentence, just click edit source on one of the two segments, delete the text and paste it into the other and you get your sentence back. The only thing is you will have an extra blank line in the Word file (or whatever) when you generate the target translation. This has been a true life saver for me on many occasions.
Eileen


 


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