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Terms in CSV or TBX format cannot be imported in SDL 2011 Multiterms
Thread poster: Frank Lin

Frank Lin  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 16:31
English to Chinese
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Apr 12, 2013

When importing the terms from other CAT tools into trados, SDL 2011 multiterm seems not recognize the terms in csv or tbx file. Can you help me on this problem?

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SDL Community  Identity Verified
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termbase layouts are important Apr 12, 2013

Hi,

If you are going to be importing terms from elsewhere to an existing termbase then you need to make sure that the structure of the termbases match, known as the import definition. You also need to convert the files you wish to import into MultiTerm xml and you do this with MultiTerm Convert.

But before you start getting into the depths of all of this it would be worth asking what kind of structure you have in place now? If they are all just simple glossaries then you might be better off exporting your existing MultiTerm termbase into Excel, then converting your other sources to Excel too, and merging them together. Finally creating a new termbase from the finished excel spreadsheet.

You may be able to do much of this work with the Glossary Converter from the OpenExchange as this will convert MultiTerm SDLTB as well as MDB to Excel, and also a TBX to a MultiTerm termbase then back to Excel.

So I thinl a little more information would help here.

Regards

Paul


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Frank Lin  Identity Verified
China
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more info Apr 13, 2013

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the useful information.

Let me attach a screen shot of the "import definition".


As you can see, there are two Columns in the Excel, but they are not all just simple glossaries. One English term might Vs. several Chinese terms, and vice versa. Can MultiTerm Convert deal with this kind of glossary or there is any better way for the import into Multiterm?

Regards
Frank

[Edited at 2013-04-13 05:10 GMT]


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Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
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much easier with MemoQ Apr 13, 2013

Hi Frank,

First of all I know this is Trados forum. Secondly, I don't use Trados Studio or MemoQ but another CAT tool. But it is much easier to create a MultiTerm termbase with MemoQ, one even with images.

Selcuk


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
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Data structure Apr 13, 2013

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:

First of all I know this is Trados forum. Secondly, I don't use Trados Studio or MemoQ but another CAT tool.

Frankly speaking, just like me

But it is much easier to create a MultiTerm termbase with MemoQ, one even with images.

I can't but agree.

How large is your termbase?
I.e. the data structure is not really suitable for most tools i.e. the empty cells will be a problem.
If it's just few terms, you can adjust the file manually before you import it but it may need some automation if the file is huge.
Both Studio (using Glossary Converter, as Paul suggested) and memoQ will require something like:
1st EN synonim(pipe)2nd EN synonim(pipe)etc.(tab)1st ZH synonim(pipe)2nd ZH synonim(pipe)etc.
(pipe) stands for |
(tab) is obvious.
Of course, the synonyms are optional.

One thing is sure.
Don't use Multiterm Convert as Paul suggested first.
It's perfectly counterintuitive and you may waste a lot of time.

Cheers
GG

[Edited at 2013-04-13 14:22 GMT]


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SDL Community  Identity Verified
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I wouldn't agree with this... Apr 13, 2013

Selcuk Akyuz and Grzegorz Gryc think:

... it is much easier to create a MultiTerm termbase with MemoQ, one even with images.



I completely agree that it is easier to create a termbase with memoQ based on the allowable parameters in memoQ. I won't say MultiTerm in difficult, but as it can be used to create a termbase that is pretty much whatever you want it to be, it can be more complex and not as simple to set up.

@Frank
However, in this case I reckon the easiest solution is the Glossary Converter because the structure is simple... even faster than memoQ You will have to do as GG suggests and sort out your spreadsheet with the synonyms by separating them in a single cell with the pipe symbol rather than as you have them now in seperate cells. But once you have done this you can just drag it onto the Glossary Converter icon and Bob's your Uncle... termbase is complete.

I had a quick play with excel to see if there was a simple way to concatenate your synonyms with the pipe symbol and came up with this idea (in case you need one).

First place the following formula into column D (or any column to the right of your two source/target columns.)

=IF(A2="",IF((A2<>""),B1,B1&"|"&B2),B1)

Next copy the formulae down the column and you'll see you start to get this sort of effect:


Next copy all the contents of column D (in my case) and paste as text to remove the formulae and then delete columns B & C (in my example).

Now filter on column A to remove all the empty rows


Then convert to your termbase with the Glossary Converter:


Now, those of you watching closely will have realised this formula for concatenation only caters for two synonyms... I did start to try creating one for more but got lost in nested excel formulae... so as much I really wanted to manage this I'm going to stop as it's late. For the excel gurus out there I'd be interested to see one that does the job for three or more synonyms. I got this far if it helps...

=IF(AND(A2="",A3=""),IF((A2<>""),B1,B1&"|"&B2&"|"&B3),B1)

A nice Sunday challenge

Regards

Paul


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Frank Lin  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 16:31
English to Chinese
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pipe symbols Apr 14, 2013

SDL Support wrote:

You will have to do as GG suggests and sort out your spreadsheet with the synonyms by separating them in a single cell with the pipe symbol rather than as you have them now in seperate cells.


GG & Paul,

Thank you both for the explanation.

I made a mistake by intentionally converting the pipe symbol into the "single cell" in the first place, as I thought it would be easier for me to explain what the problem is.

Actually, when I export the terms from another CAT tool(Across), the terms in CSV format are originally with the pipe symbol.


But once you have done this you can just drag it onto the Glossary Converter icon and Bob's your Uncle... termbase is complete.

It seems Glossary Converter is very useful, but I'm not familiar with this application. not sure if I can make this.

At the same time, I'm wondering that why importing translations from Across in TMX format directly into SDL Trados 2011 is so simple and quick, while importing terms in CSV or TBX format seems not as easy as that.

On the contrary, importing whether ther terms or translations from SDL Trados 2011 into Across are all very easy.



Regards
Frank

[Edited at 2013-04-14 02:45 GMT]


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
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French to Polish
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Recipe Apr 14, 2013

legaltranz wrote:

I made a mistake by intentionally converting the pipe symbol into the "single cell" in the first place, as I thought it would be easier for me to explain what the problem is.

Actually, when I export the terms from another CAT tool(Across), the terms in CSV format are originally with the pipe symbol.



So, everything is clear now.
The problem is you are clickin' on the CSV in order to open it.
You should open Excel first, open the file in Excel, i wil display the text file import creator.
At the first screen, select separated nd the encoding (probably Unicode otr UTF-8, just see if the Chinese chars are displayed correctly in the Preview pane below).
Click Next.
On the second screen, select the correct separator (only semicolon).
Click Next.
On the third screen, just click OK.
Save as Excel.
Delete the first column containing numbers.
AFAIR you should also put the language names in the first row, I don't remember, I use this only for exporting from Multiterm termbases.
The file is ready to be imported.

BTW, you can also open this text file in a decent text editor like Notepad++ (or similar) and replace semicolon by tab, in this way you can just click it in order to open it in Excel


But once you have done this you can just drag it onto the Glossary Converter icon and Bob's your Uncle... termbase is complete.

It seems Glossary Converter is very useful, but I'm not familiar with this application. not sure if I can make this.

Just download it.
http://www.cerebus.de/glossaryconverter/index.html
It's designed as a simple tool for Trados users with no technical skills (the real gurus use Multiterm Convert...), so it's really simple.
And it's free

At the same time, I'm wondering that why importing translations from Across in TMX format directly into SDL Trados 2011 is so simple and quick, while importing terms in CSV or TBX format seems not as easy as that.

Because Multiterm was designed and created by a different team of programmers carefully selected because of their tortuous mind
They're simply unable to do it in a simple way.

On the contrary, importing whether ther terms or translations from SDL Trados 2011 into Across are all very easy.

Indeed, the Multiterm import filter in Across is really good.
I use it sometimes as converter for multilingual termbases 'cause Multiterm has no working CSV export filter.
Don't use it unless your termbase is a simple 1:1 term list.

Cheers
GG

[Edited at 2013-04-14 14:37 GMT]


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
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French to Polish
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Off topic... making it simple... Apr 14, 2013

SDL Support wrote:

(...)

Now, those of you watching closely will have realised this formula for concatenation only caters for two synonyms... I did start to try creating one for more but got lost in nested excel formulae... so as much I really wanted to manage this I'm going to stop as it's late. For the excel gurus out there I'd be interested to see one that does the job for three or more synonyms. I got this far if it helps...

=IF(AND(A2="",A3=""),IF((A2""),B1,B1&"|"&B2&"|"&B3),B1)

A nice Sunday challenge


Well, it seems you, the SDL guys, always try to find a complex global solution so why your software is so bloated

In this case, the solution seems incredibly simple.
Save the Excel file as txt (Unicode).
Open it in Word.
Search and replace "^p^t" by "|" (both without quotation marks).
It creates unified target entries.
It's possible to create unified source using some RegEx but it's enough to:
- convert the text to table
- change the column order
- convert the table to text (using tab as separator)
Again, search and replace "^p^t" by "|" (both without quotation marks).
Save.
At this stage the file can be imported in memoQ.
Open in Excel and save as XLS(X).
At this stage you can use the Glossary Converter.
No programming skills are required, every dummy can do

Of course, it's a OK only for one time manual operation but it would be easy to record a macro in Word.
A possible quirk, the operations on large files in Word may be extremely slow, so one can perform the column order change in Excel, if necessary.
Of course, it will work only for simple two column files but it would be enough in this case...

Of course, a decent text editor could be used instead of Word, it's just a proof of concept.

Cheers
GG

[Edited at 2013-04-14 14:36 GMT]


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Frank Lin  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 16:31
English to Chinese
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perfectly sovled Apr 14, 2013


It seems Glossary Converter is very useful, but I'm not familiar with this application. not sure if I can make this.

Just download it.
http://www.cerebus.de/glossaryconverter/index.html
It's designed as a simple tool for Trados users with no technical skills (the real gurus use Multiterm Convert...), so it's really simple.
And it's free

Thank you for the 'recipe', it's very 'delicious'

The import problem is finally sovled with only 2 easy steps:

1. Use Across to export the terms in tbx format;

2. drag it into the Glossary Converter icon.

Done!

Regards
Frank

[Edited at 2013-04-14 13:21 GMT]


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SDL Community  Identity Verified
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Well it appears you're right... Apr 14, 2013

Grzegorz Gryc wrote:

Well, it seems you, the SDL guys, always try to find a complex global solution so why your software is so bloated



Although I don't really agree with the bloated part Interestingly I refined it further... no need to convert to excel at all. Once you have done the search and replace just save the file still as plain txt and then drag that into the Glossary Converter... now you have your termbase.

Very clever... I would never have thought of going through Word like that! But I'd still be interested in completing the excel solution just because I like excel!

@Frank
Using TBX... indeed, the easiest approach and the good thing about this approach is that even if the termbase was more complex the Glossary Converter can handle the TBX to Multiterm without taking a breath.

Regards

Paul

[Edited at 2013-04-14 16:20 GMT]


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Darius Daniel Grigoras  Identity Verified
Romania
Romanian to English
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SDL Multiterm is more of a gimmick Apr 15, 2013

I've trialled MultiTerm and upon import all it did was garble some Romanian special characters. MultiTerm doesn't even have search and replace.

Screenshot 1: I've tried importing a tab delimited file, because that's the only way to obtain an SDLTB; importing directly from Excel only converts it to MultiTerm XML format, which I cannot load into Trados 2011 as it only supports *.sdltb and *.mdb; am I missing something or is this sheer stupidity or perversity from SDL's part?):



Glossary Converter seems to help though by converting Excel files to SDLTM. The only problem is that with large files (130.000 terms) it's pretty slow. And you may encounter some errors. I'm testing it at the moment.



It's interesting that in order to get some things done in SDL Trados and Multiterm you need to resort to plugins, add-ons and third-party software.

I guess that Grzegorz Gryc was right to say that Déjà Vu is the best CAT Tool. The guys from Atril even delimit themselves from the practice of their competitors, and I quote them: "Déjà Vu is the most complete Translation Memory software package available today. You will not need any add-ons, plug-ins, service packs or anything else in order to take full advantage of all its sophisticated features."

I also have just trialled Déjà Vu and I'm amazed at the features it packs, especially with regard to the creation and management of Termbases, which is not a separate software as is the case with SDL Multiterm, but is a feature of Déjà Vu, and despite that, it is still far better than the gimmick offered by SDL.

[Edited at 2013-04-15 13:42 GMT]


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SDL Community  Identity Verified
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Or could it be... Apr 15, 2013

... complete sheer stupidity on your part?

I have just tried recreating your termbase, complete with your special characters and they look fine whether you use MTConvert or the Glossary Converter to get there.

I guess that when you decided to convert the tab delimited file (for some reason... you already had the excel and could have used this) you have also destroyed the encoding in the file before it went into MultiTerm. I took a quick look at the txt file created from excel and I see this in an editor:


If I save it as Unicode txt from excel instead I see this:


If I use this txt file for the termbase instead then it looks fine... although this is tortuous route when you already have the file in Excel:


On which tools are easier... I imagine for simple use many tools are easier than MultiTerm, and in particular MT Convert. The Glossary Converter takes a lot of the work out of it for simple stuff but I can assure you that not many tools, DejaVu included, are capable of handling the requirements of a Terminologist. But I don't want to start, or participate in a flamewar about different tools... there are other forums for this if you want to do that. This one is a forum to help SDL Trados and MultiTerm users with their questions.

I think if you don't know how to do something then sometimes it's better to ask rather than be so forthright in your opinions first of all.

Regards

Paul


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Darius Daniel Grigoras  Identity Verified
Romania
Romanian to English
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You should stop guessing Apr 15, 2013

I'm no beginner to solving and finding work-arounds to badly developed software.
When I exported to *.txt (tab delimited) I actually copied the content from Excel to Notepad++ and saved as UTF-8 without BOM.



This is what Glossary Converter returns when I try converting a large and complex Excel file directly:



Just one of the errors.

Fluency Translation Suite imports this large file in 5 minutes.

So maybe it's not stupidity from SDL's part, just perversity.

I've wasted enough time.

@ your shameless remark, that it may be sheer stupidity from my part, first of all I'm not a software developer or debugger, and despite that I worked like one. Secondly, you probably are or at least represent one of the developers and debuggers of SDL and did not provide for MultiTerm Converter a feature to convert an Excel file directly to SDLTB. Thirdly, your reply proves what kind of people work for SDL, and that I was right to say what I've said.

[Edited at 2013-04-15 14:13 GMT]


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SDL Community  Identity Verified
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Funny... Apr 15, 2013

... how it's fine to take potshots at us but we aren't allowed to respond in kind!

Anyway, I followed your process and copied and pasted into a file encoded as UTF-8 less BOM and I see what you do. So perhaps you should use a BOM and then you'll see this:


On your error using the Glossary Converter. I really have no idea... this is actually a 3rd Party application developed through the OpenExchange. But I did email the developer to see what he thinks. In the meantime I'll happily take a look at your file if wish?

Regards

Paul


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