Why do people still refuse Studio 2009 and later and stick with Tag Editor?
Thread poster: pcs_MCIL
Sep 11, 2013

I must confess I am not a heavy user of Trados, but most of the time I was required to use the newer version (side-by-side). Since that has been around for a while now, I am very surprised when I get requests for projects that specifically needs to be done with Tag Editor in 2013!

I used Tag Editor less than 10 times in my whole life and I found it extremely painful compared to the new CATs with a side-by-side view and more features.
So why do people still like to stick with Tag Editor?

Older TM can be easily converted to the new *.sdltm format, so what's so good in Tag Editor?


 

Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
Tag editor is user friendly Sep 11, 2013

Girino wrote:
Why do people still refuse Studio 2009 and later and stick with Tag Editor?
.....what's so good in Tag Editor?


I have been using tag editor since 2003, I was always always able to solve any problems myself and very quickly. It is very intuitive.

SDL 2009 is not difficult ok, but sometimes some error cannot be solved and I hate to be forced to search in the forum for solving problems.


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 03:13
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Why TagEditor? Sep 11, 2013

Girino wrote:
I used Tag Editor less than 10 times in my whole life and I found it extremely painful compared to the new CATs with a side-by-side view and more features. So why do people still like to stick with Tag Editor?


Well, firstly, I think people prefer to stick to what they know. Secondly, not everyone prefers side-by-side view. Thirdly, TagEditor is FAST and Studio is slooooooooooooooooooooooow. When I use Studio I feel like someone must have come in behind my back and stolen gigabytes of memory from my computer, or severely underclocked my processor, or something.

And yes, Studio has more features but it is also a much more complex program to use. Not to mention confusing. Every time I use it, I have to relearn how it works and how to do what the client is asking of me. But I suppose if I used only Studio and had only one client, I would get to know it better quicker, so in a sense I'm in the same boat as you.

Samuel


 

Charlotte Farrell  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:13
Member (2013)
German to English
+ ...
Many clients ask for Tag Editor/2007 but I refuse to use it Sep 11, 2013

I have never liked Trados 2007, whether Word-based or Tag Editor, and every time I had to use it in my previous in-house job I had to ask for help from colleagues because something usually went wrong at some stage or another. Trados Studio wasn't perfect but was a lot easier to learn how to use, but I've loved MemoQ ever since I got it and doubt I'll move to anything else any time soon.

I guess with Tag Editor, translators who used it as their first CAT tool and are used to it and familiar with it are more likely to want to continue with it than update to something else for the sake of it, which is fair enough as all it really affects is their own productivity. I don't massively understand it when translation companies ask their translators to use it, though - thankfully many of mine are happy for me to use what I want as long as I can deliver in the format they've asked for.


 

Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 04:13
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
It doesn't matter Sep 12, 2013

One of my clients still sends projects for TE and I do them in TE. because it is the fastest way to do it. Otherwise I prefer Studio 2011 or WFP depending on what the clients wants and what kind of TM I have ready. Studio has never been slow, not even on a 2 GB Vista laptop three years ago.
If the workflow works, why change it?


 

Elina Sellgren  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 04:13
Member (2013)
Finnish to English
+ ...
big investment Sep 12, 2013

The agency versions cost quite a lot if you're a small agency so of course you want to utilize a tool you already have for as long as possible and feasible.

 

Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
me too Sep 12, 2013

Samuel Murray wrote:
Every time I use it, I have to relearn how it works and how to do what the client is asking of me.

Every time, because I use it only if requested


 

pcs_MCIL
TOPIC STARTER
I see Sep 12, 2013

ElinaSel wrote:

The agency versions cost quite a lot if you're a small agency so of course you want to utilize a tool you already have for as long as possible and feasible.


That's perhaps the most sensate answer of all.
From the user's perspective, I don't see why refusing to adopt new technolgies and software could be a wise choice.
Even if you don't like them, the software manufacturer is investing a lot of money ans resource for the newer version(s), and it is not going to come back. (Isn't Trados going to discountinue Tag Editor with their new Studio 2014 release?).

About the memory usage issues of SDL Studio, I never experienced any until opened this thread. Rebooting the system solved the issue, but I can see why the fear.icon_wink.gif

Besides, my fear with Tag Editor was messing with tags accidentally. I could never fix them - too much hidden stuff in the *.ttx files!

I see Tag Editor as an old instruments that those who spent years to master still love and claim it is the best, but the world has moved on. (No offense intended for the TTX-lovers)



[Edited at 2013-09-12 21:33 GMT]


 

Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Member (2003)
French to Italian
+ ...
Thanks Sep 12, 2013

Girino wrote:

I see Tag Editor as an old instruments that those who spent years to master still love and claim it is the best, but the world has moved on. (No offense intended for the TTX-lovers)


First of all one does not need to spend years to master TE but just few weeks, world has moved on and in fact we can use "modern" tools, even if we just prefer what we know better, this is
not an handicap in our job.

P.S. It is very easy to learn working with tags, very easy,

[Edited at 2013-09-12 22:50 GMT]


 

PapagenoX
Local time: 18:13
TagEditor is way more intuitive Sep 13, 2013

I'll tell you why a lot of people still prefer to use TagEditor-- because it's about 1000 times more intuitive!

Case in point: at my company (a translation customer in the main--I am one of those "rare as hen's teeth" internal translators) we have all of our documentation in SGML. Even after creating file types for Studio 2011 based on the old .ini files, which in turn were based on the DTDs for our document types (service manuals, maintenance manuals, service bulletins etc.) it's not an intuitive, easy thing to insert an sgml entity (a string which appears in text as a & followed by the entity name followed by a semicolon-- example & ordm ; --minus the spaces--which appears as º ) as a protected tag (I don't even think it's possible--the best I've been able to do is set it up as a plain text quick insert in the file type.

In 2007's TagEditor, no special preparation was required--you just went up to the Edit menu and there it was: insert entity--which let you insert AS A PROTECTED TAG in the editor anything that was in your .ini.

Another frustration I'm currently having with 2011 that was a breeze in TagEditor: how the heck to get tag pairs I've set up in the file type quick insert to actually show up in the editor when I insert them! A KEEP tag pair for instance, or an EMPH pair? I insert them and when I save target as I see them in the translation plain text, but when I'm still working in the file they don't appear on screen, even if I have tags set to show (and BTW 2011 doesn't remember my unchecking the "tags can be hidden" box in the quick insert editing window after I exit).

I'm sure that 2011 has all kinds of cool features if you run a translation agency, but as an actual translator, forget it, it's a pain, at least when working with SGML files. About the only cool thing I've found is that it autocompletes recognized terms from the termbase when you start typing them.


 

SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:13
English
This is definitely a matter of opinion... Sep 13, 2013

PapagenoX wrote:

I'll tell you why a lot of people still prefer to use TagEditor-- because it's about 1000 times more intuitive!



... as I hate to use TagEditor and I can't find anything when I try to use it! It's really what you are used to, and I would almost put money on most users not finding TagEditor very intuitive when they first started to use it. Certainly I can recall the posts in the forums from some years back and they don't exactly spark fond memories!

Hopefully the video I prepared for you (contains your data so I can't make it public but if anyone is interested I may do something better later) will explain how to add these things as protected tags in Studio 2011.

Ctrl+Shift+H hides the display of tags, but if you still can't make this work it would be worth checking that the settings in Tools -> Options -> Editor are not set to hide things by default, and also that you are making the changes in the right place (Project Settings vs Tools Options).

Regards

Paul


 

Marinus Vesseur  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 18:13
English to Dutch
+ ...
Studio has matured... Sep 14, 2013

... into a reliable and very useful tool. I was very sceptical in the beginning, not entirely unfounded as it turned out, but in the meantime Studio has grown up and is, now that I've used it for a while, easier to use and definitely more productive and way more powerful in its features than TagEditor. To me, that is, because the adjective "intuitive" seems to be very subjective. Having said that, some procedures may very well be more complicated than they used to be - I've never encountered what you describe here.

PapagenoX wrote:

I'll tell you why a lot of people still prefer to use TagEditor-- because it's about 1000 times more intuitive!




 

pcs_MCIL
TOPIC STARTER
With Studio I discovered things I didn't even wondered about in Tag Editor Sep 14, 2013

I can understand that some aspects of Studio are not intuitive.
For example, you set up the project in the Project window, you can see the files within the project in the File window, you can get full stats in the Report window and you work in the Editor window. Finally, you have the Memory window where you can edit TMs.

I still don't understand why MultiTerm is a separate program. If there is a window to manage TMs, why don't add one to manage glossaries?


Of Studio, I like that the average user doesn't need to do anything particular to translate. You create your project, add your file (Studio handles loads of file formats, even newer ones), translate, finalize, and the programs updates the TM and creates the clean file automatically.

You can run spell-check and QA to check everything is there. You don't have to look for the line number, a simple clic of the mouse and you're on the segment having issues.
You can filter the source/target based on a specific word or set of words, so that you can maintain consistency easily.

AND I never ever had a conversion problem with Studio. With TE, a lot of times the clean up was unsuccessful for a reason or another. And I was stuck there.
It happened to accidentally mix up the code between segments (those external tags), sometimes even when using Find/Replace. And God knows which one was mixed up!

I suppose Studio can do the same things as TE, if not more. The opinion on the fact that it does them better or worse is very subjective, but being having started to work with side-by-side CAT tools, I couldn't never see myself going back.


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 03:13
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Intwoative Sep 14, 2013

SDL Support wrote:
It's really what you are used to, and I would almost put money on most users not finding TagEditor very intuitive when they first started to use it.


That is quite true. The term "intuitive" is so elusive. For example, I find MS Word 2003 very intuitive and Word 2010 utterly unintuitive, but those who have settled with Word 2010 say the exact opposite. I must say that I find both Trados 2007 and Trados 2011 unintuitive. For both programs it is important that you have been taught how to use it.

Girino wrote:
Of Studio, I like that the average user doesn't need to do anything particular to translate. You create your project, add your file ..., translate, finalize, and the programs updates the TM and creates the clean file automatically.


That is not true. The clean file is not created automatically. However, that is not my gripe with what you write: the problem with your sentence is "finalize". What is so intuitive about having to finalise a translation after you've already finished translating it? If a translator isn't told that he needs to "finalize" the translation, he wouldn't figure it out himself. And that's actually just a simplification, because there isn't just one type of finalisation in this program...

A few weeks ago I did what I thought was intuititve: I opened a TM in Trados 2011, and did a translation in it, and then tried to figure out why I don't get matches from the TM. It was only after asking about it on the forums that I had learned that I should not have "opened" the TM, but that I should have "added" it instead. Wow, now that is "intuitive" (not).

What bugs me most about the intuitiveness of Trados 2011 is that I'm never sure what the next step in the process is. The program doesn't give me a progress bar or progress report or any indication of what steps have been done and what steps must still be done before I can shut down and get some coffee. I'm forced to keep little lists of tasks that I should do (with detailled instructions about where to click and in what mode I'm supposed to be in) for every client.


 

Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:13
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Because they are insane. Sep 14, 2013

Why do people still refuse Studio 2009 and later and stick with Tag Editor?

Girino wrote:

I must confess I am not a heavy user of Trados, but most of the time I was required to use the newer version (side-by-side). Since that has been around for a while now, I am very surprised when I get requests for projects that specifically needs to be done with Tag Editor in 2013!

I used Tag Editor less than 10 times in my whole life and I found it extremely painful compared to the new CATs with a side-by-side view and more features.
So why do people still like to stick with Tag Editor?

Older TM can be easily converted to the new *.sdltm format, so what's so good in Tag Editor?

No, really.

Michael


 


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