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Studio 2014 and speed
Thread poster: Olly Pekelharing

Olly Pekelharing  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 13:37
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
Oct 10, 2013

Plenty of people on these forums are enthusiastic about how fast Studio 2014 is. I find it to be as slow or slower than 2011, especially when adding new terms and during TM lookup. I use win8 with 8gb ram and an i5 chip. Has anybody got any clues as to why I'm not profiting from the new speed and what I could do about it?

Thanks,

Olly


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Shai Navé  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 14:37
Member
English to Hebrew
+ ...
Main speed gain is in file porccessing Oct 10, 2013

i.e. processing the file(s) for project creation, saving the file(s) during a project and finalizing the project.
Adding a term is a known issue, and it is Java related (I think), and I hope that it will be sorted out in one of the next updates.

As for your machine, you have a very solid one, but most performance gain for an average user will not come from more RAM or higher frequency CPU (assuming that you meet some threshold according to general and user-specific needs, and your configuration is very good in general) but from a better storage system, especially one with short access times, or in other words: a SSD.


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Orrin Cummins  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 20:37
Japanese to English
+ ...
I agree Oct 10, 2013

Shai Nave wrote:

i.e. processing the file(s) for project creation, saving the file(s) during a project and finalizing the project.
Adding a term is a known issue, and it is Java related (I think), and I hope that it will be sorted out in one of the next updates.

As for your machine, you have a very solid one, but most performance gain for an average user will not come from more RAM or higher frequency CPU (assuming that you meet some threshold according to general and user-specific needs, and your configuration is very good in general) but from a better storage system, especially one with short access times, or in other words: a SSD.


I mentioned the possibility of noticeable gains in speed with an SSD in another thread some time ago, but the suggestion seemed quite unpopular with some people. Still not really sure why.


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Enrico C - ECLC  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 19:37
Member (2011)
English to Italian
+ ...
My take on it to date (Around 15 projects handled) Oct 10, 2013

Olly Pekelharing wrote:

Plenty of people on these forums are enthusiastic about how fast Studio 2014 is. I find it to be as slow or slower than 2011, especially when adding new terms and during TM lookup. I use win8 with 8gb ram and an i5 chip. Has anybody got any clues as to why I'm not profiting from the new speed and what I could do about it?

Thanks,

Olly



I'll be short.

Studio module: Align/Translating/Autosuggest creation/Translations/General project preparation processing = MUCH FASTER. There is a remarkable job of code polishing there.

Multiterm: As bad as it can be. Terrible user experience. Error messages, Java, slow adding terms, excess of clicks to make the job done.

It's important to see where the slowliness comes from. The wrong module in my opinion is MT.


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Enrico C - ECLC  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 19:37
Member (2011)
English to Italian
+ ...
Also with 7200rpm HDD Oct 10, 2013

Orrin Cummins wrote:

Shai Nave wrote:

i.e. processing the file(s) for project creation, saving the file(s) during a project and finalizing the project.
Adding a term is a known issue, and it is Java related (I think), and I hope that it will be sorted out in one of the next updates.

As for your machine, you have a very solid one, but most performance gain for an average user will not come from more RAM or higher frequency CPU (assuming that you meet some threshold according to general and user-specific needs, and your configuration is very good in general) but from a better storage system, especially one with short access times, or in other words: a SSD.


I mentioned the possibility of noticeable gains in speed with an SSD in another thread some time ago, but the suggestion seemed quite unpopular with some people. Still not really sure why.


Hi Orrin, i read that post. I agree but i have 2 7200 HDD (750GB each) on an Acer 8951G (Ivy Bridge i7) and the machine is blazing fast. However, i have 16GB ram too. I think RAM helps. SSD is still pretty anti-economic as the cost-gb ratio is still too high. You get close to that with a 10K RPM HDD too.


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Orrin Cummins  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 20:37
Japanese to English
+ ...
True, it's all a trade-off Oct 10, 2013

Enrico C - ECLC wrote:

Orrin Cummins wrote:

Shai Nave wrote:

i.e. processing the file(s) for project creation, saving the file(s) during a project and finalizing the project.
Adding a term is a known issue, and it is Java related (I think), and I hope that it will be sorted out in one of the next updates.

As for your machine, you have a very solid one, but most performance gain for an average user will not come from more RAM or higher frequency CPU (assuming that you meet some threshold according to general and user-specific needs, and your configuration is very good in general) but from a better storage system, especially one with short access times, or in other words: a SSD.


I mentioned the possibility of noticeable gains in speed with an SSD in another thread some time ago, but the suggestion seemed quite unpopular with some people. Still not really sure why.


Hi Orrin, i read that post. I agree but i have 2 7200 HDD (750GB each) on an Acer 8951G (Ivy Bridge i7) and the machine is blazing fast. However, i have 16GB ram too. I think RAM helps. SSD is still pretty anti-economic as the cost-gb ratio is still too high. You get close to that with a 10K RPM HDD too.


The ratio can be high, yes. But considering the OP already has 8GB of RAM, the real question is: what would produce the largest increase in "speed"? For example, upgrading to 16GB of RAM may be cheaper than switching to an SSD, but what if the speed gain is only < 5%? It almost doesn't seem worth it, no matter how low the cost.

One of the big positives that I see for an SSD upgrade is that all you need is an SATA controller, which are so common on motherboards now (or can be easily added via expansion slots), whereas sometimes one finds themselves limited by their motherboard when it comes to RAM or CPU upgrades, especially with slightly older computers (with dated chipsets and their inherent limitations).

But of course everything is a trade-off, and you have to consider many factors. I'm just saying that SSD is worth considering, that's all. It's not so terribly expensive anymore.

And I agree that the main problem with speed in Trados is probably its incredibly awkward implementation of Java, which isn't really hardware-related at all.


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Shai Navé  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 14:37
Member
English to Hebrew
+ ...
SSD and access time Oct 10, 2013

The major advantage of a SSD over HDD, regardless of its RPM, is the very short access times. This is where its advantage lies and what makes it a great option for "reviving" old and new machines alike.
Indeed, if you look at it from a cost per GB it is pricier than HDDs (although in the recent two years their prices have raised quite a bit, and now through a series of acquisitions there are only two players left: Western Digital and Seagate), but the capacity is just a minor consideration because SSD is not supposed to be used for storage, all one needs is to install the OS and the program one uses, and for that in an average system even a 64 GB drive will do in most cases (although personally I recommend 128 GB drive), and there are very reasonably priced SSDs in these capacities.

If the budget is limited my recommendation is to offset the cost of the SSD by going for less RAM (up to a point of course; but most system don't need more then 4GB of RAM, although RAM is pretty cheap), a "slower" CPU (which in it by itself is less important than the common belief) or any other component that is not essential to the user's needs.

Those who have a lot of RAM (8 and above) and don't use it (most average use-case scenarios) can look into turning the excess RAM into a RAM disk to better utilize their investment in the hardware.


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Enrico C - ECLC  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 19:37
Member (2011)
English to Italian
+ ...
Not sure about RAM Oct 10, 2013

Shai Nave wrote:

The major advantage of a SSD over HDD, regardless of its RPM, is the very short access times. This is where its advantage lies and what makes it a great option for "reviving" old and new machines alike.
Indeed, if you look at it from a cost per GB it is pricier than HDDs (although in the recent two years their prices have raised quite a bit, and now through a series of acquisitions there are only two players left: Western Digital and Seagate), but the capacity is just a minor consideration because SSD is not supposed to be used for storage, all one needs is to install the OS and the program one uses, and for that in an average system even a 64 GB drive will do in most cases (although personally I recommend 128 GB drive), and there are very reasonably priced SSDs in these capacities.

If the budget is limited my recommendation is to offset the cost of the SSD by going for less RAM (up to a point of course; but most system don't need more then 4GB of RAM, although RAM is pretty cheap), a "slower" CPU (which in it by itself is less important than the common belief) or any other component that is not essential to the user's needs.

Those who have a lot of RAM (8 and above) and don't use it (most average use-case scenarios) can look into turning the excess RAM into a RAM disk to better utilize their investment in the hardware.


Not really sure about the RAM thing. You claim people don't need more than 4GB but my PC out of the box had 8GB and i found it slow. I added another 8GB module and the improvement in performances was obvious. Also, occupied RAM is often beyond 8 or 10 GB (+2GB of Graphic ram i used for the occasional multiplayer when i make time).

So i don't think the RAM theory is completely right.

I do agree on the small SSD, especially if matched to a second slot where you put a fast HDD (1TB or so if you need storage as i do). That would turn any machine into a sort of rocket. Removing OEM bloatware is a good idea too. Much of that slows down the PC out of the box. I didn't keep anything by ACER. I downloaded a free uninstaller and cleaned up all the stuff i didn't need. The PC runs fast, very fast.

One third player in the field of SSD is Kingston, and their SSDs are pretty well built as well.


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Shai Navé  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 14:37
Member
English to Hebrew
+ ...
It's not a theroy Oct 10, 2013

There isn't one universal answer. The most cost-effective specification is dependent on the user needs.
What I was referring to is a typical average system that is not used for things like video encoding, 3D rendering, etc. For a typical "office-use" system 4GB are plenty.
Gaming is a different type of use then "translation" that require different consideration (there the GPU is the most important component).

The fact that today 4-8GB are pretty much standard is not necessarily because they are needed, but because these the are most cost-effective chips. Mind you that for utilizing more then 4GB one should use a 64-bit system, and because most translation enviroment tools are 32-bit softwares, they cannot use more then 2GB of RAM.
It's all depends on needs. The first step before deciding on a system should be to analyze and identifies the intended uses, understand what the specific programs one uses benefit most from, and then build the specification accordingly.

What I meant to say was that sometimes people spend a lot of attention and money on more RAM or a "Faster" CPU out of false assumption that these are what automatically make their machine faster (they might depending on needs, but should not be the default upgrade path) and neglect investing in what they can actually benefit from, may it be a more appropriate storage system, a more feature-rich motherboard to accommodate more drives or with specific number or type of connections, or peripheral such as a good ergonomic monitor - once you clear the basic requirements for CPU and RAM, these have much more influence in the daily user experience.


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Wladyslaw Janowski  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:37
German to Polish
+ ...
How many wood would .... Oct 10, 2013

Shai Nave wrote:

i.e. processing the file(s) for project creation, saving the file(s) during a project and finalizing the project.
Adding a term is a known issue, and it is Java related (I think), and I hope that it will be sorted out in one of the next updates.

As for your machine, you have a very solid one, but most performance gain for an average user will not come from more RAM or higher frequency CPU (assuming that you meet some threshold according to general and user-specific needs, and your configuration is very good in general) but from a better storage system, especially one with short access times, or in other words: a SSD.

Java-related issues are well-known since very beginning (2009) and we hear since 4 years still only, that ANYTIME in the near (???) future Studio will be no more Java-dependent.
The question: "one of the next updates" = 4 years or more?
Regards
WJ


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Wladyslaw Janowski  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:37
German to Polish
+ ...
SDL or SSD? Oct 10, 2013

Orrin Cummins wrote:

Shai Nave wrote:

i.e. processing the file(s) for project creation, saving the file(s) during a project and finalizing the project.
Adding a term is a known issue, and it is Java related (I think), and I hope that it will be sorted out in one of the next updates.

As for your machine, you have a very solid one, but most performance gain for an average user will not come from more RAM or higher frequency CPU (assuming that you meet some threshold according to general and user-specific needs, and your configuration is very good in general) but from a better storage system, especially one with short access times, or in other words: a SSD.


I mentioned the possibility of noticeable gains in speed with an SSD in another thread some time ago, but the suggestion seemed quite unpopular with some people. Still not really sure why.


So let me ask a simple question. To have Studio work faster do we need new product or simply SSD? Of course 2011 works in some aspects also faster with SSD as with standard HDD. We must know, what we are comparing. 2011 vs. 2014 or HDD vs. SSD, don't we?

My suggestion: to have faster Studio, buy SSD (will make faster also another software), nt Studio 2014. If you just purchased 2014 (and SSD was not attached as free bonus), you must buy a SSD. This way SLD is putting the SSD busines go round (I'm sorry for this non-professional paraphrase from Bob Fosse's Cabaret, but ... the story about fast Studio sound like cabaret rather
Regards
WJ

[Edited at 2013-10-10 18:33 GMT]


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Wladyslaw Janowski  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:37
German to Polish
+ ...
Hihly economic SSD solution (not only for Studio) Oct 10, 2013

Because the discussion is now (and good so) no more Studio-oriented but hatrdware-oriented, let me recommend some solution I'm using since early 2011 versions and this one made Studio significantly faster (without any workload for SDL's developers).
It's SSD (small one 32 or 64 GB, so rather cheap) with Synapse software, making the half of the SSD invisible but very fast cache for your disk system (I have quite old HDD-based RAM 10 on 4 years old PC with i7 second generation and 12 GB RAM - it is still very good performat configuration). With this solution all files (system files, apps, data) are located on SSD (cache is not the same as RAM because RAM is volatile), so each time I start and close the system, the content of SSD changes, according to an algorithm, making the most of files I need for starting the system and working with your default software instantly available.
I guess, Studio 2014 will perform that better with this solution as 2011 performed better with the same solution.
This for the case you want to purchase 2014 for speed, not for new features.
Regards
WJ


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Shai Navé  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 14:37
Member
English to Hebrew
+ ...
Two comments Oct 10, 2013

Yes, Studio should get rid of Java and become more independent, but that is obviously not going to happen before the next Major release, if at all.
The current term addition slowness issue is probably Java related and it is possible, although not guaranteed, that it will be fixed in one of the next updates. Because in its current state it is borderline unusable, I would assume that it will get a priority.

Studio 2014 is significantly faster than 2011 in some aspects. That is a fact (believe it or not).
My comment about the SSD was not intended to claim that you need SSD to use Studio or to make it usable. What I said was that people tend to think of CPU and RAM as the main components that make a system go "faster", while in fact in most systems a SSD can to a lot more in that regard, especially those who benefit more from quick random access times (i.e. most average systems). Therefore, when you have a modern CPU and enough RAM (4GB and above) and still not satisfied, the next component to upgrade is probably your storage device rather than the CPU or RAM.


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Wladyslaw Janowski  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:37
German to Polish
+ ...
Wishful thinking Oct 10, 2013

Shai Nave wrote:

Yes, Studio should get rid of Java and become more independent, but that is obviously not going to happen before the next Major release, if at all.
The current term addition slowness issue is probably Java related and it is possible, although not guaranteed, that it will be fixed in one of the next updates. Because in its current state it is borderline unusable, I would assume that it will get a priority.

Studio 2014 is significantly faster than 2011 in some aspects. That is a fact (believe it or not).
My comment about the SSD was not intended to claim that you need SSD to use Studio or to make it usable. What I said was that people tend to think of CPU and RAM as the main components that make a system go "faster", while in fact in most systems a SSD can to a lot more in that regard, especially those who benefit more from quick random access times (i.e. most average systems). Therefore, when you have a modern CPU and enough RAM (4GB and above) and still not satisfied, the next component to upgrade is probably your storage device rather than the CPU or RAM.


Well, what you wrote about Java, is wishful thinking rather or you are representing SDL?
This is one of many old stories, all Studio users should know by heart, so we are still on the same way and in the same point. SDL has "qualified" this for the "near future" 2 or more years ago. Now with first major version after nearly 3 years since 2011 this feature" was still not "near" enough.
As to SSD, I fully agree with you according to my own experience, having significantly revitalized my about 2 years old PC, by installing SSD-cache (see my another earlier post) with positive effect on Studio's performance, but also another software and the system itself.
Of course it is not necessary to have SSD to be able to use Studio. But the investment in SSD is worth (IMHO) more in terms of Studio's performance then the investment in 2014 upgrade.
Note, that I'm still guessing a lot from all discussions I can read here, because I have not purchased 2014 upgrade (yet?). Whereas I can buy a SSD and make use of "money back guarantee", if the effect is not according to what I expected or - even if no such possibility - I still have a valuable hardware upgrade. This is not necessarily so with Studio 2014. And I never heard about something like "money-back guarantee" for SDL products. And now even the trial is not available. This makes me more suspicious as usually, so I will wait even years until the trial is available.
Regards
WJ


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Miguel Carmona  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:37
English to Spanish
Multiterm, the eternal drag, in Studio 2014 still a drag Oct 10, 2013

Enrico C - ECLC wrote:

Multiterm: As bad as it can be. Terrible user experience. Error messages, Java, slow adding terms, excess of clicks to make the job done.


You have confirmed my worst fear.

Anyone might think that after years of complaints from users, SDL would finally do something, anything about it.

Sadly, once more, they have not.

Maybe like others have asked themselves, shall I wait until the next upgrade? What would that be? 2016?

[Edited at 2013-10-10 22:30 GMT]


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