| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Why do so many translators still use Trados 2007? Thread poster: Anne Parent
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Anne Parent wrote:
Thank you all for your help and explanations. I think I will have to ask my clients if they intend to keep using Trados 2007 for a while again, and if so (...)
IMO some translations offices, especially the smaller ones will keep using Trados 2007 until hell freezes.
Among others (as abovementioned), one of the reasons is Trados 2007 persistence is a lightweight environment if compared to Studio and the fact it's easier to manage in simpler workflows.
The old Trados is usually faster for typical simple PM tasks unless the translation office may afford some automation tools (including Studio servers) which may be very expensive.
The real distribution is IMO close to fifty-fifty.
It's confirmed e.g. by the Kevin Lossner's survey at:
http://www.translationtribulations.com/2013/10/computer-aided-translation-tool-survey.html
Just vote and see the results.
BTW, I was really surprised the declared memoQ part of the market is in fact equal to Studio.
I knew it was big (it seems Kilgray sells approx. 50% more memoQ licenses than SDL does for Trados...) but not so big like that.
Cheers
GG
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | | It’s all about performance | Oct 25, 2013 |
I own Trados 2007 and Studio 2009, but I prefer to work with 2007 and tell my agency clients so. Maybe I am not the only one doing this.
Why do I prefer 2007? In my hands, and with my types of text, 2009 delivers much worse performance when it comes to the most basic function a CAT tool has to perform: to find the best match in a TM, be it for the whole translation unit or for parts of it (i.e. concordance search).
Heinrich and Grzegorz have already written similar sta... See more I own Trados 2007 and Studio 2009, but I prefer to work with 2007 and tell my agency clients so. Maybe I am not the only one doing this.
Why do I prefer 2007? In my hands, and with my types of text, 2009 delivers much worse performance when it comes to the most basic function a CAT tool has to perform: to find the best match in a TM, be it for the whole translation unit or for parts of it (i.e. concordance search).
Heinrich and Grzegorz have already written similar statements in this thread, and Grzegorz has collected many examples here in the SDL Trados Support forum. The official SDL support here have been quite responsive to this at times, but I see no indication that this most basic function was improved from Studio 2009 to 2011 or 2014.
Mainly because of this, I will keep using Trados 2007 for as long as possible and probably change to an entirely different CAT tool, should the need arise, instead of further upgrading Trados Studio.
Matthias
P.S.: Just for fun, here are two Studio 2009 match examples from my own collection, with match ratings in square brackets:
New TU: (49 HIV-positive)
Match 1: (98-100) [65%]
Match 3: 1 vial [62%]
Match 6: HIV-positive [46%]
New TU: Starts the plunger-wash pump
Match 1: Priming the plunger-wash pump [83%]
Match 2: Starts the plunger wash pump [69%, i.e. not found when using a 70% threshold]
[Edited at 2013-10-25 10:47 GMT]
P.P.S:
Grzegorz Gryc wrote:
The match rates for shorter segments (below 5 words) were even "better" and the absurdities of the algorithm were more visible, so why (I suppose), according to the release notes, the text recognition algorithms for short segments were changed in Studio 2014.
Interesting, let's see how this turns out.
[Edited at 2013-10-25 10:58 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule |
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Roy OConnor (X)
Local time: 16:53
German to English
| No going back for me! | Oct 25, 2013 |
I can't really comment on the situation with agencies and Trados as my customers are mainly end-users. But changing to Studio has meant a big increase in productivity for me.
E.g. one customer uses Word for his user manuals (often 90 pages or more). Not only that, he uses all the tricks which Word has to offer. Consequently, in 2007 the formatting of the target file ended up quite different to that of the source file, leading to a substantial amount of extra work. With the change t... See more I can't really comment on the situation with agencies and Trados as my customers are mainly end-users. But changing to Studio has meant a big increase in productivity for me.
E.g. one customer uses Word for his user manuals (often 90 pages or more). Not only that, he uses all the tricks which Word has to offer. Consequently, in 2007 the formatting of the target file ended up quite different to that of the source file, leading to a substantial amount of extra work. With the change to Studio the formatting is hardly affected at all.
Also, IMHO the Autosuggestion feature of Studio is a big enhancement over 2007 and in my case led to a significant increase in speed.
Now wild horses wouldn't drag me back to 2007!
Roy ▲ Collapse
| | | | Natalie 
Poland
Local time: 16:53
Member (2002)
English to Russian
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Moderator of this forum SITE LOCALIZER | Hello everybody | Oct 25, 2013 |
I would like to remind that this thread is about Trados 2007, not about any other tools. Please kindly do not stray from the topic; in case there is a need to discuss other tool(s), please open a new thread (in corresponding forum).
Thank you.
| | | | | Translators adapt to the agency | Oct 25, 2013 |
I use both 2007 and 2011 according to what the agency wants me to use. There are still many agencies using 2007.
If I can choose freely, I prefer to use 2011.
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Anne Parent wrote:
Years ago, I had Trados Workench 6.5 Freelance, and for different reasons I did not need to buy Trados 2007. Last year I bought Trados 2011 and I love it. But now working for various translation agencies, I realize that many translators still have Trados 2007 and do not want to upgrade. Some of them even have 2011 as well, but keep using 2007 for some large clients. The problem is, I cannot buy 2007 as it is not sold anymore, and there are compatibility issues between the 2. The translation agencies I work with have 2011, so why do translators keep using 2007? What is so precious about it? And is there any way I can get a 2007 version to be compatible with those translators?
Thank you for your help.
Hi Anne,
I don't really understand your problem. You have Studio 2011 and you like it. Agencies you work with have also 2011. You realize, some translators are still using 2007 even those having also 2011. I would assume, they don't like Studio and prefer to work with 2007 if this is possible (agencies, customers, partners for prrofing a.s.o.). What's wrong here? If somebody have still only 2007 and don't want to upgrade, he/she will lose all potential 2011 projects. You will eventually get more projects.
So what's your problem?
And why do you want to have 2007?
If I remember well, 2007 was still a part of the package with Studio 2011. If you buy 2014 as new license, you will not get 2007 in the package.
Anyway it's the best choice, to ask SDL's support or sales department.
The argument is, there are cases, you cannot handle with Studio 2011/2014 because of incompatibilities. Possibly they can help you or find solution for the incompatibilities you are claiming. So far I know (I have both 2007 and 2011), SDL claims, there are no incompatibilities or tools to solve them are available. If not, these could be eventually bugs? Ask SDL
Regards
WJ
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| I think, really, there are only 2 questions involved | Oct 25, 2013 |
For agencies the big reasons for NOT changing are:
1. cost - remember the version for agencies is really quite expensive (I don't know if the others are on the same order)
2. change in work flow - any time you change your system, it takes time to get things rolling smoothly. Once you have a relatively good work flow and are sort of in a rut, you don't want glitches (like changing software) to throw a monkey wrench into your work. So... you put it off.
For t... See more For agencies the big reasons for NOT changing are:
1. cost - remember the version for agencies is really quite expensive (I don't know if the others are on the same order)
2. change in work flow - any time you change your system, it takes time to get things rolling smoothly. Once you have a relatively good work flow and are sort of in a rut, you don't want glitches (like changing software) to throw a monkey wrench into your work. So... you put it off.
For the second reason I haven't upgraded to 2014 yet. But I will soon.
Eileen ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Why would anyone still need 2007? | Oct 26, 2013 |
I find it astonishing that some people have commented on here with things like "all agencies" or "most of my clients" still use 2007.
I do not have a single client that uses 2007, all have either updated to 2009 or 2011 (none of mine use 2014 yet) or never used Trados in the first place.
I personally don't see the problem, as 2011 can cope with all the bilingual formats that Trados 2007 used. And even if the client requires, but doesn't supply, the bilingual formats, th... See more I find it astonishing that some people have commented on here with things like "all agencies" or "most of my clients" still use 2007.
I do not have a single client that uses 2007, all have either updated to 2009 or 2011 (none of mine use 2014 yet) or never used Trados in the first place.
I personally don't see the problem, as 2011 can cope with all the bilingual formats that Trados 2007 used. And even if the client requires, but doesn't supply, the bilingual formats, there are now tools available for pre-segmenting or conversion to TTX. It's an extra step, but only a little one and is more than compensated by the productivity gains of studio.
Even if an agency asked me to do a job and they still only used 2007, I wouldn't install the software just for the sake of it. I wouldn't need to. ▲ Collapse
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Nick Quaintmere wrote:
I find it astonishing that some people have commented on here with things like "all agencies" or "most of my clients" still use 2007.
I do not have a single client that uses 2007, all have either updated to 2009 or 2011 (none of mine use 2014 yet) or never used Trados in the first place.
I personally don't see the problem, as 2011 can cope with all the bilingual formats that Trados 2007 used. And even if the client requires, but doesn't supply, the bilingual formats, there are now tools available for pre-segmenting or conversion to TTX. It's an extra step, but only a little one and is more than compensated by the productivity gains of studio.
Even if an agency asked me to do a job and they still only used 2007, I wouldn't install the software just for the sake of it. I wouldn't need to.
You'll find my rant scattered in some threads here and i'll repeat it once more. I had 2007, Studio 2009/2011 and now 2011/2014 (2009 is gone).
Last year a customer first assigned me a job and then, when he realized i was using Studio 2011 and i was having some compatibility issues with the ttx files prepared for his Translator "TEAM" of 6 people all using 2007 he removed me from Team Leader of the team, took the project and sent it to another team leader. All this because i "just" told him i was using Studio 2011. Doesn't matter if after i told the Project Manager i could use 2007 even though it would be slower and QA wouldn't be so good considering the time allotted. Doesn't matter if i told them i could use MemoQ to open the files Studio wouldn't open. He told me, clearly "We need 2007 as our techs don't like the compatibility issues 2007 and Studio cause with files as this is extra work for us (read more man-hours to pay)" and never told me what these "incompatibilities were" (however their 2007 files wouldn't open on my 2011 and 2009 Studio but would open on MemoQ).
All this to explain that some companies still use 2007 and are actually convinced that 2007 is better than Studio. It also shows that what we see in our small world as single translators doesn't necessarily apply as a trend all around the world.
For example, i know a bunch of companies in India and China that still use 2007, partly because it's simpler to use, cheaper to find and easier to crack and hack in terms of serials (so you can equip a full agency with 2007 for free and actually work also on a server if you need). Also, setting up a project in 2007 is way faster than going through all the screens of Studio. This is not my opinion...i am just telling things from a different perspective that pertains, or may potentially pertain, to third parties around the world.
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Enrico C - ECLC wrote:
You'll find my rant scattered in some threads here and i'll repeat it once more. I had 2007, Studio 2009/2011 and now 2011/2014 (2009 is gone).
Last year a customer first assigned me a job and then, when he realized i was using Studio 2011 and i was having some compatibility issues with the ttx files prepared for his Translator "TEAM" of 6 people all using 2007 he removed me from Team Leader of the team, took the project and sent it to another team leader. All this because i "just" told him i was using Studio 2011.
In some scenarios Studio indeed messes up the Trados TTX files.
So, in fact, I think your customer was entitled to remove you from the project as he was not aware you're a CAT hopper before the problem arose.
Nonetheless, I think his reaction was somehow hysteric and exaggerated, just like in the Trados hegemony epoch 10 years ago, he could arrange it in a mode friendly way.
E.g., recently, I was revising a SDLXLIFF job, the customer asked me why he meets some irregularities only in my jobs while the other languages were correct. I did some research and discovered the problem was the translator and his CAT hopping procedure.
And nothing happened, I instructed the translator how to overcome the problem for the next jobs, everybody's happy.
(...)
Doesn't matter if i told them i could use MemoQ to open the files Studio wouldn't open. He told me, clearly "We need 2007 as our techs don't like the compatibility issues 2007 and Studio cause with files as this is extra work for us (read more man-hours to pay)" and never told me what these "incompatibilities were"
Frankly speaking, I suppose tjhe PM simply didn't know it, he was only aware something goes wrong with Studio and the techie guys were angry. It's a typical situation in the translation offices, usually PMs are not IT specialists.
IMO, basically, the PM function is not to resolve your CAT hopping problems.
He fixes the boundaries, if you transgress 'em, it's your responsibility to maintain a 100% compatibility.
(however their 2007 files wouldn't open on my 2011 and 2009 Studio but would open on MemoQ).
In the past memoQ experienced some problems with the TTX files, e.g. the output code page was incorrect (UTF-8 instead of UTF-16 Low Endian aka Unicode).
The files exported from memoQ could not be reimported correctly in some workflows (CMS systems etc.).
BTW, this error is corrected now (AFAIR one year ago or more...) and memoQ should do the job.
Nonetheless, some time ago the customer could be right to prevent you to use memoQ fot this project.
(...)
For example, i know a bunch of companies in India and China that still use 2007, partly because it's simpler to use, cheaper to find and easier to crack and hack in terms of serials
First at all, AFAIK Nalpeiron is also easy to tweak, so it's not the only reason why the old Trados is used mainly in the "poor countries".
E.g. I receive a lot of Trados 2007 jobs from Italy, Netherlands etc.
As they're rather technically skilled, I suppose they put their mantra Please, use TRADOS 2007 EXCLUSIVELY (do not use Trados 2009 or 2011) for some sound reasons because I also receive from them some Studio jobs.
Of course, I translate all these jobs in DVX but they're aware of it
BTW, I think the fact SDL don't longer bundles T2007 with Studio is penalizing the "younger" translators i.e. it prevents 'em from working with some more conservative customers which are not necessarily thieves, fusty, idiots etc.
TTX is still one of the de facto standards of the industry and does the job surprisingly well in most common scenarios.
Of course, the TagEditor translation environment is IMO painful but the projects managers don't need to care about it, they do not translate...
Cheers
GG
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nrichy (X)
France
Local time: 16:53
French to Dutch
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| I leave Trados 2007 jobs to other persons | Oct 28, 2013 |
I went straight from Wordfast (both versions) and an inhouse tool to Studio. I have only one 2007 client and provide them with bilingual Word files made by WF Cl, they are fine with that and add them to their TMs in the way they want it.
One of my other client asks for 2007, I give them sdlxliff without even asking them, and they are fine with that too, no comments.
If the clients really want 2007, and if this is important for them, then they'll have to find other translators. Ever... See more I went straight from Wordfast (both versions) and an inhouse tool to Studio. I have only one 2007 client and provide them with bilingual Word files made by WF Cl, they are fine with that and add them to their TMs in the way they want it.
One of my other client asks for 2007, I give them sdlxliff without even asking them, and they are fine with that too, no comments.
If the clients really want 2007, and if this is important for them, then they'll have to find other translators. Everybody happy. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Same CATs had been used for 5 years before | Oct 28, 2013 |
Frankly speaking, I suppose tjhe PM simply didn't know it, he was only aware something goes wrong with Studio and the techie guys were angry. It's a typical situation in the translation offices, usually PMs are not IT specialists.
IMO, basically, the PM function is not to resolve your CAT hopping problems.
He fixes the boundaries, if you transgress 'em, it's your responsibility to maintain a 100% compatibility.
Sure i may agree. In that case, if you are a decent PM (I had dealt with other PMs before on the same issue), you simply find a fix as it had been done before. I had been doing that specific project for 5 years in a row...with 2007, 2009, 2011 without a single issue.
First at all, AFAIK Nalpeiron is also easy to tweak, so it's not the only reason why the old Trados is used mainly in the "poor countries". E.g. I receive a lot of Trados 2007 jobs from Italy, Netherlands etc. As they're rather technically skilled, I suppose they put their mantra Please, use TRADOS 2007 EXCLUSIVELY (do not use Trados 2009 or 2011) for some sound reasons because I also receive from them some Studio jobs. Of course, I translate all these jobs in DVX but they're aware of it
I don't set priorities on what is easier to crack. I base what i say on what i see or am reported by my Indian/Asian customers. I don't think they make statistics on what is easier to crack though. They simply go by what they need and can be hacked.
I still get some EU customer with 2007, although rarely and i do the job in 2011, actually 2014 or MQ and it all goes fine. (At least they never came back complaining)
BTW, I think the fact SDL don't longer bundles T2007 with Studio is penalizing the "younger" translators i.e. it prevents 'em from working with some more conservative customers which are not necessarily thieves, fusty, idiots etc.
TTX is still one of the de facto standards of the industry and does the job surprisingly well in most common scenarios.
Of course, the TagEditor translation environment is IMO painful but the projects managers don't need to care about it, they do not translate...
I agree on that.
However, if someone wonders why there are still people using 2007, well the list you get here from different perspectives and paths of life should provide a nice answer.
| | | | | Corporate spirit, competences, Trados upgrade costs... | Oct 28, 2013 |
Enrico C - ECLC wrote: Frankly speaking, I suppose tjhe PM simply didn't know it, he was only aware something goes wrong with Studio and the techie guys were angry. It's a typical situation in the translation offices, usually PMs are not IT specialists.
IMO, basically, the PM function is not to resolve your CAT hopping problems.
He fixes the boundaries, if you transgress 'em, it's your responsibility to maintain a 100% compatibility. Sure i may agree. In that case, if you are a decent PM (I had dealt with other PMs before on the same issue), you simply find a fix as it had been done before. I had been doing that specific project for 5 years in a row...with 2007, 2009, 2011 without a single issue.
It depends heavily of the customer.
IMO more "corporate" ad less competent they are, less chances you have to make your work flexible if you spot some problems.
Sometimes their workflows are really dumb but the PMs can't change nothing because some corporate boss decided it's OK.
E.g. some texts are totally unsuitable for Passolo but the corporate policy is to use Passolo for everything 'cause they don't mean to buy Studio (3000 EUR for Studio Pro...). For the boss it's OK 'cause they are cutting costs, for a translator it's simply crazy.
In the same way, if a translation office boss decides they will not buy Studio (or buy just one license in order to assure the compatibility), you can't really expect PM would be able to find and test a workaround.
As you probably know, the Trados price for agencies was always prohibitive, so agencies often try to maintain the status quo or replace Trados in their core processes.
IMO this pricing policy makes SDL shooting its own foot 'cause these agencies will rather promote memoQ or whatever.
It's one of the reasons the SDL stocks are free falling during the last 2 years, from approx. 750 p. to approx. 250 pence per share.
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-markets/stocks/summary/company-summary.html?fourWayKey=GB0009376368GBGBXSSMM
Quoting:
Technology bookings in Q3 are weaker than expected and we envisage a license revenue shortfall for the year.
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail.html?announcementId=11741465
BTW
The same cutting cost rule applies to the PMs, the general rule is they tend to get cheaper but less competent.
I doubt an old PM you know from 5 years or more could react as you describe.
I would expect more cooperative attitude...
PS
Another time, I would insist some customers have sound reasons to use "outdated" software. e.g. they developed some additional internal tools (e.g. QA, macros, interfaces with other programs).
If they upgrade, they would be forced to rewrite it all.
So they don't do until really necessary.
Cheers
GG
[Edited at 2013-10-28 12:02 GMT]
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