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Why do so many translators still use Trados 2007?
Thread poster: Anne Parent

Anne Parent  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 18:42
English to French
Oct 22, 2013

Years ago, I had Trados Workench 6.5 Freelance, and for different reasons I did not need to buy Trados 2007. Last year I bought Trados 2011 and I love it. But now working for various translation agencies, I realize that many translators still have Trados 2007 and do not want to upgrade. Some of them even have 2011 as well, but keep using 2007 for some large clients. The problem is, I cannot buy 2007 as it is not sold anymore, and there are compatibility issues between the 2. The translation agencies I work with have 2011, so why do translators keep using 2007? What is so precious about it? And is there any way I can get a 2007 version to be compatible with those translators?

Thank you for your help.


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Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 01:42
Member (2006)
English to Turkish
+ ...
industry standard Oct 22, 2013

Hi Anne,

Trados was the so-called industry standard (though I always used DVX). What about Studio? Since 2009, only one agency sent me an SDLXLIFF project and normally it was a Trados project (one of the genius translators used Studio instead of Trados, and the agency asked if I can proofread it with Studio or another CAT tool).

Studio is only one of the CAT tools in the market, that is all. Do you think your investment was a good one - buying a CAT tool which is not used by agencies?

Selcuk


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 00:42
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Because... Oct 22, 2013

Anne Parent wrote:
I realize that many translators still have Trados 2007 and do not want to upgrade.


It is a mistake to say that changing from Trados 2007 to Trados 2009 is an "upgrade". Trados 2009 is an entirely different program. Changing from Trados 2007 to Trados 2009 is no different from changing from Trados 2007 to Wordfast or MemoQ or [gasp!] Across or Fluency.

Trados 2007 has some difficulty dealing with the most modern and most complex Microsoft Office files, but that is about the only thing against it. It is a very robust yet fairly simple program. There is no reason whatsoever to ditch it. Furthermore its quirks are well-known, documented and discussed, so the odds of coming across a problem that doesn't have a known fix is slimmer than with Trados 2009 or later.

Some of them even have 2011 as well, but keep using 2007 for some large clients.


Yes, some clients still use it. Its set of features is sufficient for their needs and outweigh any benefit that they might possibly get from "upgrading" to an entirely different program.

The problem is, I cannot buy 2007 as it is not sold anymore, and there are compatibility issues between the two.


Yup, that is a bummer. A similar situation occurs with agencies that use Idiom -- only a certain number of translators have the tool, and no new translators can get the tool unless they're happy with pirated versions of it.

The translation agencies I work with have 2011, so why do translators keep using 2007?


Well, some translators keep using it because they have clients who still use it. Why should I change my tool just because your clients use a different tool? That makes no sense. Others use it because it is a CAT tool that they know best, and the tool that you know best is the one in which you perform the best.

What is so precious about it?


Nothing. But it is not broken, and not everyone believes that you should fix something that aint broken just because the year that forms part of the name of the product is not this year.

And is there any way I can get a 2007 version to be compatible with those translators?


What do you mean?


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Anne Parent  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 18:42
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
I don't regret buying 2011... Oct 22, 2013

I had to learn how to use it, and taking a course was a great idea (I learned level 1 by myself and paid for the level 2-intermediate course). I love the features and all, and all of my current clients have it too. The only problem is, not all of their translators have it, so when I edit someone or get edited, we are not always compatible. Some translators have it, of course, but many seem to be so reluctant to buy it that I don't understand their point of view. It had a great ROI on both the application and the course. I have plenty of work anyway, but I hate to find out late at night that a job I need to edit was translated using an old version, or that I have to convert to a legacy version for the editor.

I believe investments is an essential part of our business, so I would even consider buying an old version if I could buy one somewhere - but is that possible? I could have sold the legacy version 6.5, because a CD and a USB key was all that was necessary. How about version 2007? Could it be sold in the same way? Anyone has version for sale?

Best,

Anne


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Parrot  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 00:42
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
I have both Oct 22, 2013

... and with the bullet-point glitch, don't blame me for preferring 2011. MY question is, why do agencies all seem to work with 2007?

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Niina Lahokoski  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 01:42
Member (2008)
English to Finnish
+ ...
Converting is a hassle, maybe? Oct 22, 2013

I have Trados 2007, SDLX and Studio 2011, and I use all of the three quite regularly, depending on the client. Personally I prefer Studio, but among agencies, Trados 2007 does seem to be quite widely supported, even preferred, still.
I suppose it would be a lot of work to convert all of their projects from Trados 2007 to Studio 2011, and many agencies have no one available to do it. Just like they never seem to have any interest in cleaning up the translation memories that have become a mess, but that's a whole another story...

Have you checked the Exchange section on this site? Some people sell their old tools when they buy new ones, and you might find Trados 2007 on sale there.

[Edited at 2013-10-22 20:30 GMT]


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 00:42
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
I don't think you can sell Trados 2007 Oct 22, 2013

Niina Lahokoski wrote:
Have you checked the Exchange section on this site? Some people sell their old tools when they buy new ones, and you might find Trados 2007 on sale there.


A non-pirated installation of Trados 2007 works with a license number that is associated with a specific user, so I don't think it is possible to buy a working copy of Trados 2007, unless you and the seller are willing to tell a whole series of lies to SDL about it.

The demo version aka trial version of Trados 2007 is almost fully functional except that the TM size is limited to 100 segments. So if you're not using the TM, you should be able to use it for editing TTX projects. Google for "SDLTrados2007Suite_FL_863_CD.exe" to learn more about it.


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philwhite
Local time: 00:42
German to English
It's all about the filters Oct 22, 2013

The differences between the filters in 2007 and 2009 were, in some cases, very significant. The result was that after you had converted the translation memories and created a project with the selfsame files you just translated (which should have yielded completely translated documents (or near enough), you were often faced with half the project yielding 100% matches and virtually all the other half yielding 95% matches because the tagging was handled differently. For a 10 or 15 page document, it may not be a significant issue to capture this the next time you translate the document. For a translation project of 2000+ pages that is updated a couple of times a year with 100 pages of new material, it means actually handling and checking 1100 pages of material. No client is prepared to pay for this. Of course, it depends very much on the type of material you translate. If it is heavily formatted operating instructions written in FrameMaker, you can be in serious trouble. If it is largely unformatted material in Word, it makes no difference what system you use.

For my part, I spent about a week or so manually manipulating exported translation memories with complex regular expressions to allow us to migrate one customer from 2007 to 2009. In the end, I had managed to get the translation memories to yield around 95% of the 1500 pages of documentation. We did one further update, in which we captured the remaining issues and translated some new material, and the company then unexpectedly withdrew the product.

We migrated the vast majority of our customers without any great difficulty, but we took a huge financial hit on that one. Agencies with far greater volumes and multiple languages would be talking about a massive investment to migrate successfully, and such an investment would never be offset by the productivity gains of the new versions. As long as they can get away without migrating, they will continue to use 2007, as we do for one remaining customer. It is exactly the same reason why many big documentation departments continue to use FrameMaker V8 (or even V7), despite the fact that Version 11 is on the market. The migration costs and risks far outweigh the benefits of the new versions.


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Jorge Payan  Identity Verified
Colombia
Local time: 17:42
Member (2002)
German to Spanish
+ ...
I have the demo (free) version of TRADOS 2007 available. Oct 23, 2013

In case you want to try your hand on it. As Samuel stated, due to the TM being limited to 100 TUs it is just good for segmenting, converting original files to ttx/bilingual and saving bilingual as destination format, and that is it.

In fact the TRADOS 2007 license is tied to the MAC address of the PC where it is installed, not to a specific user. So, I imagine that you would have to buy that specific PC...

Just write to me in private and I will gladly send the demo to you.


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564354352  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 00:42
Danish to English
+ ...
It looks more 'natural' Oct 23, 2013

I am one of those translators who have both Suite 2007 and Studio 2011 installed. I am completely familiar with 2007, having worked my way through Trados upgrades since version 2 back in 2000, and I just like it better than Studio. I agree that Studio has some features that are better, and I opt for Studio when I have to work in anything but Word files. For Word files, I simply prefer the 'natural' look of the text as opposed to the fragmented side-by-side look in Studio.

I bought my combined Suite 2007 + Studio 2011 off a client, told SDL about it and had excellent help from them (free of charge) in transferring the license. Absolutely no need for cloak-and-dagger antics there...


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 01:42
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Old Trados works better on memory search Oct 23, 2013

In Studio I sometimes get 100% matches that are no matches at all, and with a threshhold of 75% the fuzzies are sometimes really alarmingly bad. With a project in Trados 2007 using TE I can rely to get only useful matches, but with Studio everything needs to be checked.
Updating translation memories takes much time if one uses different tools. So switching to a new memory format is an important decision for agencies.


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Elina Sellgren  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 01:42
Member (2013)
Finnish to English
+ ...
2007 + 2011 Oct 23, 2013

I got this combination through a discount sale here on Proz, it might still be available directly from their website.

Basically I use 2007 for clients (agencies) who require it, and 2011 for clients who don't care whether I use a CAT tool or not. I don't like 2007 because I got used to using 2009 initially but I'm glad I bought 2007 - it's brought me more work and less pain for agency clients.


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 00:42
French to Polish
+ ...
Tweaked TM matching Oct 23, 2013

Heinrich Pesch wrote:

In Studio I sometimes get 100% matches that are no matches at all, and with a threshhold of 75% the fuzzies are sometimes really alarmingly bad. With a project in Trados 2007 using TE I can rely to get only useful matches, but with Studio everything needs to be checked.


Except few cases, the matching in Studio is far worse than in "legacy" Trados.

IMO the Studio algorithms were intentionally modded in order to return "better" match percentage.
E.g. a nonsense 60% match in old Trados becomes a "sound" 73% match in Studio.
It' corresponds to a regular 1/3 increase.

The match rates for shorter segments (below 5 words) were even "better" and the absurdities of the algorithm were more visible, so why (I suppose), according to the release notes, the text recognition algorithms for short segments were changed in Studio 2014.
I had no time to test it, although.

Cheers
GG


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Niina Lahokoski  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 01:42
Member (2008)
English to Finnish
+ ...
About Trados 2007 license Oct 23, 2013

If the Trados 2007 license is of type "Activation code", it is possible to "return" the 2007 license and activate it in another computer quite easily, no questions asked. The program probably would have to stay in the name of the original owner, though. Indeed, I don't know if this is even "permitted" by SDL, but it certainly is possible to use the license in a different computer.

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Anne Parent  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 18:42
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
Discussion with agencies... Oct 23, 2013

Thank you all for your help and explanations. I think I will have to ask my clients if they intend to keep using Trados 2007 for a while again, and if so, manage to find a version of it, trial at least. It will not bring me more work, but possibly less frustration when teaming up.

Thank you again, and best regards,


Anne


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