How to add terms in word documents to TRADOS?
Thread poster: Carolina Mendez

Carolina Mendez  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:25
English to Spanish
+ ...
Oct 25, 2004

Hello
I purchased Trados Freelance 6.5.5

Being brand new to Trados, I would like to know how to add the terms used in several previous translations I did in the past without the use of Trados. I used Word (.doc).

I do not have the terms separated from the content. I am referring to an original document in English and its Spanish translation.

I would like the terminology to be added to it, so I can use those terms in the next translation project regarding the same topic. It's sort of an annual update with legal terms.


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Fernando Toledo  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 03:25
German to Spanish
Trados can not extract terminology Oct 25, 2004

...at least the Freelance version.

if you want to extract terminology you will need a application like +tools (www.champollion.net)

Then you have to import it into Multiterm in order to use it with Trados

Rgds


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 03:25
English to German
+ ...
TermExtract Oct 26, 2004

Hi Carolina,
What you can do with your software package is to align legacy text material (using WinAlign), creating a translation memory in the process.

To extract terminology, you will need an additional module called TermExtract - contrary to Toledo's statement, a Freelance version is available. Go to TranslationZone for details.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Fernando Toledo  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 03:25
German to Spanish
That is new Oct 26, 2004

Ralf Lemster wrote:

contrary to Toledo's statement, a Freelance version is available. Go to TranslationZone for details.

Best regards,

Ralf


That is new, If I understand it is another Mammoth application and you have to pay for it, it is right? I try to see how much it cost, but I can not find it (but that is normal by Trados)

I have worked wit TermExtract (Trados 5,5 LSP) during a very big in-house project, and I can say, I hope this new version works better, otherwise...

Now I work with Trados only with tagged files. For Word Docs, I prefer Wordfast.

Rgds


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 03:25
English to German
+ ...
I wouldn't work for free Oct 26, 2004

Hi Toledo,
That is new, If I understand it is another Mammoth application and you have to pay for it, it is right?

I'm not sure how you define "mammoth" - the application requires 60MB of free hard disk space. And yes, it's not free, but then I don't mind paying for an asset if I can build a business case. That, of course, is everyone's decision.

I try to see how much it cost, but I can not find it (but that is normal by Trados)

Excuse me? The price is clearly displayed on the page I linked... it's EUR 996, BTW.

I have worked wit TermExtract (Trados 5,5 LSP) during a very big in-house project, and I can say, I hope this new version works better, otherwise...

TermExtract was never a part of T5.5LSP - ExtraTerm was (at least at the beginning). And yes, there is a difference.

Best, Ralf


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Fernando Toledo  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 03:25
German to Spanish
That is more than Multiterm+Worbench+Tageditor together! Oct 26, 2004

Ralf Lemster wrote:

...The price is clearly displayed on the page I linked... it's EUR 996, BTW.



Oh! perhaps my eyes did not want to watch towards that corner

I hope one day I can expend 1000 €, as freelancer, for fishing a few words that I can do with free tools too. I suppose that Trados makes no difference if you are living in Venezuela or in Germany, like Wordfast do ¿Right?.


I have worked wit TermExtract (Trados 5,5 LSP) during a very big in-house project, and I can say, I hope this new version works better, otherwise...

TermExtract was never a part of T5.5LSP - ExtraTerm was (at least at the beginning). And yes, there is a difference.

Best, Ralf


Nevertheless, I did this job, It was a corporate version, (or Service Provider Solution or something like that), we was over 20 translator working in it. And I have to say Trados gave me the opportunity to work 6-8 month (paid by hours)more than necessary cause the bad results generated by this Extraterm.
Thank you Trados!


[Edited at 2004-10-26 11:05]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 03:25
English to German
+ ...
Your business decision Oct 26, 2004

Hi Toledo,
I hope one day I can expend 1000 €, as freelancer, for fishing a few words that I can do with free tools too.

As I said, this is your business decision. I wouldn't have bought TermExtract for "fishing a few words" - but I'm pleased with its performance on a few larger projects recently.

I suppose that Trados makes no difference if you are living in Venezuela or in Germany, like Wordfast do ¿Right?.

Not AFAIK. If that's what Wordfast do, it's either a clever way to buy market share (in which case it will be interesting to see how long they can maintain this), or their German customers should start asking themselves some questions.

Best regards, Ralf


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Carolina Mendez  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:25
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Ralf, Thank you. Oct 26, 2004

Ralf Lemster wrote:

Hi Carolina,
What you can do with your software package is to align legacy text material (using WinAlign), creating a translation memory in the process.

To extract terminology, you will need an additional module called TermExtract - contrary to Toledo's statement, a Freelance version is available. Go to TranslationZone for details.

Best regards,
Ralf


Hi Ralf,
Thank you for reply.
Since I am new to trados, it is still taking me time to familiarize with it. Later, I will consider purchasing Term Extract.
As for now, I'll start by building up a glossary with the terms in the document. Any suggestion? Which cuold be easier and faster Word or Excel? How could I add this glossary into Trados?
Thank you in advance,
Carolina


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 03:25
English to German
+ ...
Excel file -> MultiTerm Convert Oct 26, 2004

Hi again,
The easiest way to get started is perhaps to create a termlist in MS Excel, and to use MultiTerm Convert (assuming that you're using MultiTerm 6.2.0.x) to generate a database definition, plus an import file.

Other suggestions, anyone?

Best, Ralf


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xxx00000000
English to French
+ ...
Fusion Oct 27, 2004

You can get a user-firendly, visually pleasing Extract function in Fusion (as part of the standard version) for much less than Trados Extract. For terminology and dictionary, Fusion is the best - by a mile.

Wordfast is ok and downright cheap, but you have to put in the work. Fusion is really nice and easy.

Best,
Esther


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 03:25
English to German
+ ...
Has Fusion sorted out capitalisation? Oct 27, 2004

Hi Esther,
You can get a user-firendly, visually pleasing Extract function in Fusion (as part of the standard version) for much less than Trados Extract. For terminology and dictionary, Fusion is the best - by a mile.

I tested one of the earlier versions of Fusion - for me, it was unusable for term extraction because it couldn't handle capitalisation (all terms were lower-case). Have they sorted this out in the meantime?

Best regards,
Ralf


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xxx00000000
English to French
+ ...
Fusion and Caps Oct 27, 2004

Hi Ralf -

I guess the problem was solved, because I have plenty of capital letters in my Fusion dictionaries. But it's possible that I edited the dictionary entries at a later stage. I wouldn't have noticed, because I only use capitals for acronyms, proper names and the like -- but I realize it can be a real issue with German.

I know the latest version I got (1.1.5.4) solved many of the problems I had encountered in a prior version.

As much as I like Fusion, I don't use it for work (just for pleasure, it's that nice!) because everything is much simpler with SDLX.

I still use Wordfast for the clients that have doc files where only some of the sentences have to be translated (ads, packages, etc). I haven't checked recently, but one advantage of Wordfast over Fusion was clear with that kind of files: at cleanup, Wordfast processes only the tagged sentences, but Fusion takes in everything, including other languages and untranslatable text, which has the effect of messing up the TM impossibly. I haven't tested the behavior of Trados in this respect. (It seems out of the question to translate those files with SDLX, because the whole document is imported, but perhaps I'll find a way to do it.)

Best,
Esther


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Aleksandr Okunev
Local time: 04:25
English to Russian
Here's my workflow, but first, please, guys, calm down, willya? Oct 27, 2004

Dear Ralf and Toledo. Please stop your quarrel, calm down and be constructive. I guess some of your posts could use some trimming.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Carolina. My congratulations with the purchase, as far as I understand you need a budget solution. Similarly to Ralf's suggestion I would recommend you to align your documents first. You must know that alignment and terminology extraction is a far more tedious task than translation. At the same time it's what every fellow translator who has just bought a CAT is eager to do. I spent my share of time on aligning and terminology extraction and I guess your decision is quite right: if you have a ***highly repetitive*** job every year you should definitely extract the terms and have a nice termbase.

Let me explain how I would do it. (I have Trados and Wordfast).

+ align the documents in WinAlign, do it only with essential documents, it's hard work;
+ generate a TM;
+ export the TM in ***TMX*** format;
+ download Wordfast (trial, do not pay) and +Tools (freeware) http://www.wordfast.net/download.php and the Wordfast manual (+Tools manual comes in teh same Zip file), it's about 1 megabyte of data;
+ Install Wordfast and +Tools;
+ Open the TM you *exported* (TMX) with +Tools and convert it to Wordfast TM;
+ go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wordfast/ and become a member of Wordfast list, this will allow you to access files in the 'files' section of the group, download PlusToyz.doc (may be zipped, I do not remember) this is a document containing macros, one of them is able to convert a TM into a Trados-segmented Word file (you already have an aligned TM!);
+ Using PlusToyz, generate a Trados-segmented bilingual Word document and save it;

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A bit of a hooptedoodle here. Terminology extraction is the task of a human being, I do not think it is wise to scan files with any software, however smart. It is you who must decide whether the term goes in or stays out. Moreover, +Tools term extract can only perform ***monolingual*** extraction, I tried it on spam messages and made a list for my mail filter, very effective, but monolingual still. I guess Ralf or someone else can give you a general idea of what TermExtract is all about, you might be interested, considering you already have Trados. Once again --- it is impossible to build a good glossary with a freelancer's PC (or Mac
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

+ Now, because if you do not pay for Wordfast license you cannot have more than 500 Tus in the TM, but you do not need the TM because you have both source and target segments in your document, before your eyes. Disable the TM.
+ Create a new glossary, set up Quality Check to highlight the terms already in the glossary (to prevent you from re-entering them all the time) and check "add terms to glossary
+ "Translate" the document again with Wordfast, going segment by segment. Every time you see something like

-delimiter-
[This book is about polar bears] (in the source language)
-delimiter-
[This book is about polar bears] (in the target language)
-delimiter-

supposing you want 'book' and ' polar bears' in the termbase, all you need to do is place the cursor on 'book' (source), press Ctrl+Alt+T, place the cursor on 'book' (target) and press Ctrl+Alt+T again. A dialog will pop up and you hit enter to send the pair to the glossary or review it and then send. With collocation you will not place the cursor, but select the two words, using mouse or keyboard.
+ That's all
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A Wordfast glossary is a text file consisting of 2 columns of text, the terms in the pair are separated by a tab mark. You can do *anything* with this text, including importing it to Multiterm (you will need to process it a bit, search for 'Basic use of MultiTerm' document on the Web). The advantage of this is that you will have a far better glossary despite **seemingly** greater amount of effort. I tried all the 'magic' of +Tools and DejaVu and there ain't nothing netter in term extraction than my myopic eyes and sclerotic brains

Aligning with +Tools is far easier and convenient to me than with WinAlign, because, for one, I don't have to use the mouse, *BUT* a slight setup error or a bug in your system may cause a failure. Not recommended for those who has little experience with Wordfast. If you still go for it, align a one-page document first and check if you have a good TM.
Please, not that I am not following the *posts* of the thread, if you need clarification, you will need to contact me.
HTH
Aleksandr
Have you read that far?! 8o)
Thank you for your kind attention!


[Edited at 2004-10-27 20:07]


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Aleksandr Okunev
Local time: 04:25
English to Russian
A freeware tool for you Oct 29, 2004

Carolina, you have *not* joined Wordfast list. Otherwise you'd see today's posting from the list.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I like ExtPhr32, see
http://publish.uwo.ca/~craven/freeware.htm
Concerning extended characters, have a look at the possibility to add an
"additional letter set file" (I quote from memory). Also, I suggest opting
to see "full phrases" before you save the extracted file.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's a freeware term extraction tool.
HTH
Aleksandr


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Fernando Toledo  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 03:25
German to Spanish
Another way to create a Oct 30, 2004

First of all to Aleksandr, thanks for the very clear explanation.
unfortunately, my English is very limited, I learned with the films of Tarzan.
And to:

Dear Ralf and Toledo. Please stop your quarrel, calm down and be constructive. I guess some of your posts could use some trimming.

It is no quarrel, just interchanging points of view

for me is important that people do not buy Trados cause they think it is the only or best option (it is not).

Well, my aproach is very simple. I am very lazy and I have a lot of glossaries, docs, xls, PDFs, txt, TMXs etc. And I download constantly new one from Internet or from friends.

So now I put all "stuff" in a Folder and I index it, that is all.
I use now "Filehand" for that, but there is other applications.

I can now search for a word in all my glossaries and TMs (a concordance/glossary hybrid) at the same speed like Google do in Internet.

Regards

[Edited at 2004-10-30 22:56]

[Edited at 2004-10-31 08:10]

[Edited at 2004-10-31 08:11]


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