Can I work with dvsat files in Trados Studio?
Thread poster: Dialekt

Dialekt  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 01:37
Member (2007)
English to Polish
+ ...
Dec 23, 2013

Hello!
Just as I put it in the subject: can anybody tell me if it is possible to work with (translate) the DejaVu dvsat files in any version (including the latest) of the Trados Studio? Thanks in advance for your help (and have a great Holiday Season!).
Best,
Wojciech


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:37
French to Polish
+ ...
No Dec 23, 2013

Wojciech Krawczyk wrote:

Just as I put it in the subject: can anybody tell me if it is possible to work with (translate) the DejaVu dvsat files in any version (including the latest) of the Trados Studio?

No.
DVX uses a file type (MS Access) Trados can't handle.

Get a 30 days DVX trial.

Cheers
GG

[Edited at 2013-12-23 20:53 GMT]


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Dialekt  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 01:37
Member (2007)
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanx! Dec 24, 2013

Thank you for the quick reply. I kind of expected the answer would be 'no'.

Przy okazji: Wesołych Świąt!

Wojciech


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wotswot  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 01:37
Member (2011)
French to English
dvsat Dec 24, 2013

Ask whoever sent you the .dvsat file to send you an 'external view' (either .XLF or .RTF, I reckon .XLF is better, as Studio should be able to handle the tags, whereas the tags in a DVX .RTF external view are specific to DVX, { })
Richard


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Dialekt  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 01:37
Member (2007)
English to Polish
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TOPIC STARTER
I can work in DejaVu but... Dec 24, 2013

Thank you Richard for you interest and suggestion. The thing is I actually do have a professional license for DejaVu and I've worked with this CAT for years. The reason for my question is the fact that DejaVu is far, far less convenient for such heavily inflected languages as Polish than Trados Studio and my client will not provide me with anything else but dvsat (or dvpng). Anyway, your input is much appreciated.
Best,
Wojciech


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:37
French to Polish
+ ...
DVX Dec 24, 2013

Wojciech Krawczyk wrote:

Thank you Richard for you interest and suggestion. The thing is I actually do have a professional license for DejaVu and I've worked with this CAT for years. The reason for my question is the fact that DejaVu is far, far less convenient for such heavily inflected languages as Polish than Trados Studio

???!
I work in some "hard" pairs like FR-PL (or PL-FR), ES-PL etc. and I would never drop DVX for any kind of Trados, it's the fastest translation environment in the universe if fed correctly

Check your DVX settings
Lower the threshold to, let's say 60% or even less.
Enable the fuzzy terminology recognition (many people miss this setting).
If one has large and well tuned termbases, nothing equals DVX.

and my client will not provide me with anything else but dvsat (or dvpng).

Frankly speaking, I understand you, I hate every kind of satellite projects in any CAT tools, e.g. it's impossible to change the segmentation (crucial) etc.
A good workaround is to export the project as Trados bilingual EV, then create a project for this EV.
The culprit is you must have DVX Workgroup to do so.
The workarounds for Pro are possible but they make few sense if the project has fuzzies etc.

If necessary, contact me privately, I have DVX Wrkgrp.

Wesołych Świąt

Catspeed
GG

[Edited at 2013-12-24 12:27 GMT]


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Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 01:37
Member (2007)
English to German
+ ...
Apply "pseudotranslation" in your dvsat Dec 26, 2013

...and create a new TM in DV and add it to your dvsat. Then send all sections to the specific new TM, make an tmx-export of the specific DV TM and translate that exported tmx file in Studio by erasing the "pre-translated" sections first. That should work, if I have understood your problem right, which is sometimes mine too when it comes to translate DV satellites with segments which contain more than just one sentence (don´t ask me how that comes, but some customers are able to deliver projects like that...). I hope this hint will help you with your language specific issues.
Dobry wieczór,
Matthias


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Dialekt  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 01:37
Member (2007)
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Interesting and useful ideas Dec 27, 2013

@Grzegorz
I have the threshold set to 40% and fuzzy terminology recognition enabled. The problem is the projects are articles with little (mostly none) 100% or even fuzzy matches. In DVX when you want to use either a termbase or a TM you need to look for the right word in two different windows (or frames, if you like) and then type a relevant Ctrl+number combination, which I believe is much more cumbersome than having both terminology and auto-suggest displayed right in spot where you cursor is located and having them at your fingertips with the arrow and Enter keys, as is the case in Trados Studio.

Conclusion: I respect your affection for DVX but I can't really share it. Sorry

@Matthias
It sounds like a solution though seems a bit daunting at the first sight. I think I'll give it a try.

********************
Thank you all for your contributions and interest. I certainly appreciate it.

Best,
Wojciech


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:37
French to Polish
+ ...
DVX or DVX2? Dec 27, 2013

Wojciech Krawczyk wrote:

@Grzegorz
I have the threshold set to 40% and fuzzy terminology recognition enabled. The problem is the projects are articles with little (mostly none) 100% or even fuzzy matches. In DVX when you want to use either a termbase or a TM you need to look for the right word in two different windows (or frames, if you like) and then type a relevant Ctrl+number combination, which I believe is much more cumbersome than having both terminology and auto-suggest displayed right in spot where you cursor is located and having them at your fingertips with the arrow and Enter keys, as is the case in Trados Studio.

A question.
Do you have DVX or DVX2?
DVX2 does behave in a similar way than Studio, it's even better 'cause it calculates the suggestions on the fly (the AutoSuggest dictionaries in Studio are static).
You should only enable AutoWrite.
And, of course, all the automation stuff (including DeepMiner).

Cheers
GG


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Dialekt  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 01:37
Member (2007)
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
AutoWrite is not for Polish Dec 27, 2013

Thanks Grzegorz. You're right, I should have made it clear from the start that it's all about DVX2. So to answer your question: I have DVX2.

Now, I don't want this thread to become some kind of a competition which application is better. Each one has it's advantages and drawbacks and the preference depends much on your personal working style, so to speak.

Regarding the AutoWrite, I believe it can actually only prolong a Polish translator's work and damage the quality of the Polish translation by imposing the syntax of the source language. I can type quite quickly and it's less work for me to type the translated segment from scratch than to go through it and try to repair the disfigured translation offered by AutoWrite. I agree, the tool may prove useful with technical texts whose syntax is very basic and repetitive but it does more harm than good when you work with more complex (syntax wise) passages.

Best,
Wojciech


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:37
French to Polish
+ ...
Syntax wise? Dec 27, 2013

Wojciech Krawczyk wrote:

Regarding the AutoWrite, I believe it can actually only prolong a Polish translator's work and damage the quality of the Polish translation by imposing the syntax of the source language.

Neither Studio AutoSuggest nor DVX2 AutoWrite impose the syntax of the source language, they only suggest...

I can type quite quickly and it's less work for me to type the translated segment from scratch than to go through it and try to repair the disfigured translation offered by AutoWrite.

I suppose you are mixing AutoWrite and AutoAssemble.
AA may introduce some noise, depending of the DVX2 settings.

I agree, the tool may prove useful with technical texts whose syntax is very basic and repetitive but it does more harm than good when you work with more complex (syntax wise) passages.

Neither Studio AutoSuggest not DVX2 AutoWrite are syntax wise.
Both tools (and other like memoQ etc.) use similar purely statistical algorithms.
E.g. if you open a Studio bpm file in some SQLite editor, you're see only statistical data (frequency and correlation) and no grammar related info at all.
I.e. in both cases the quality of the suggestions depends of two factors. i.e. the TM size and the TM quality.

So, a tiny AS dictionary will give worse results than a big DVX3 TM used for Autowrite and a big ASD will be almost always better than a small DVX2 TM.

I said "almost always" 'cause the DVX2 approach has two technical advantages:
- you may start to receive suggestions from very small TMs,
- DVX2 uses prioritization i.e. if you mark your every job as Electric engineering, Chemistry, Law, whatever, it will usually suggest the matching area first.
In fact, DVX may also propose suggestions from several machine translation engines Studio can't do at the subsegment level...

BTW, I translate mainly technical jobs but I translate also more "syntax wise" texts

Cheers
GG


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Dialekt  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 01:37
Member (2007)
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Can I change AutoWrite font size? Dec 29, 2013

Got me again. Yes, I did mix AutoWrite with AutoAssemble.

By the way, is there a way to set either the size of the AutoWrite popup window (to make it longer/larger) or the font in it (to make it smaller)? It seems the font in the AutoWrite window is the same as the primary font set for the target language and since I my primary font is rather large the popup window shows only small portions of text which basically renders it useless because I can't really the suggestion.

As per usual: many thanks for your assistance and patience.

Aha, if the moderator of this thread (or forum) believes I'm drifting off too much with the new question, please let me know and I will start a new thread in the DejaVu section.

Wojciech


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Grzegorz Gryc  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:37
French to Polish
+ ...
Varia Jan 8, 2014

Wojciech Krawczyk wrote:

By the way, is there a way to set either the size of the AutoWrite popup window (to make it longer/larger) or the font in it (to make it smaller)?

AFAIK, no way to change it.
BTW. neither Studio offers this feature.

The AutoWrite popup window is created dynamically and its size depends of the suggestions.
Its quite frequent it doesn't contain an entire meaningful suggestion, sometimes you should accept the first part shown in the first popup, then second (third etc.) part will be displayed in another popup window.
BTW, I receive sometimes very long sound suggestions (10 words or even more), so I suppose it may be a problem with the size/relevance of your TMs.

It seems the font in the AutoWrite window is the same as the primary font set for the target language and since I my primary font is rather large

Yep.
Probably you're right. it would be better to hae two separate settings.

the popup window shows only small portions of text which basically renders it useless because I can't really the suggestion.

I use the standard small font, I set a bigger font now, just to test it, and aI see exactly the same content as for the standard font.
So I suppose the problem is rather the TM or the threshold.
IMO your 40% is usually too low and you may receive too much noise.

BTW, my TMs/TBs rresult from 15 years of fine tuning, so the suggestion accuracy is probably better than for "raw" ones.

As per usual: many thanks for your assistance and patience.

Sorry for the delay, I missed the last message...

Aha, if the moderator of this thread (or forum) believes I'm drifting off too much with the new question, please let me know and I will start a new thread in the DejaVu section.

It makes sense
You may receive more input from other DVX users...

Cheers
GG


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