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STUDIO 2014 did not segment all the Word text
Thread poster: Giuseppe Bellone

Giuseppe Bellone
Italy
Local time: 12:08
Member (2009)
English to Italian
+ ...
Sep 26, 2014

Hi,
I'm a new user and everything looked ok, but much to my surprise this is what happened:

I was translating a booklet in Word, sent by the customer.
At the beginning of the booklet there was the usual CONTENTS with the corresponding page for each chapter.
After loading the file and starting translating I immediately noticed that the first page, the CONTENTS one was totally missing from the segmentation! The segments started from the first page of FULL text and pictures, BUT the previous page, CONTENTS, had been completely ignored!
After finishing the translation I had to translate the CONTENTS separately, and of course I had to add manually all the TARGET titles of the chapters, as Studio had ignored them as said above.

The strange thing was that the pop up PREVIEW, which can be seen on the right of the editor, showed all both texts! The TARGET part perfectly shown, and the SOURCE part which had remained untouched, i.e. the CONTENTS list, all this WITHOUT sending ANY ERROR MESSAGES!!! STUDIO considered this unfortunate mess as perfect!!!

So, as I was in total doubt something else had been left out as well, I had to go through the whole number of pages MANUALLY (about 250 pages!!!), to make sure Studio had seen all the sentences!

Very frustrating, very disappointing, and I don't want to add more... what can have happened?
All the rest of the functionalities seemed to work, but I do regret, yes, I do regret having spent the money... what are complicated features worth if the basic, simplest things are not done properly, can anyone explain that to me?

[Modificato alle 2014-09-26 14:42 GMT]

[Modificato alle 2014-09-26 14:55 GMT]


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Kevin Fulton  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:08
German to English
Update fields in Word Sep 26, 2014

This seems to be a Word issue. The table of contents in many documents is generated from field codes in the section headings. This may have been the case with your document. Place your cursor in the toc and right-click. You will see options regarding field codes. You need to select the update option. This may solve your problem.

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Giuseppe Bellone
Italy
Local time: 12:08
Member (2009)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Kevin Sep 26, 2014

Ok, I'll try and reload onto STUDIO the document and see whether it cuts the segments for the table of contents as well.
Thanks a lot for your suggestion,
Giuseppe


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Giuseppe Bellone
Italy
Local time: 12:08
Member (2009)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I give up Sep 26, 2014

Too complicated to change the parameters of Word.
I don't know what to do and what to change; the list of possibilities shown is long and confusing as usual, sorry(

BUT the bad thing of Studio is that the tool simply and happily ignores that not all the source text has been segmented!

That is a very very SERIOUS mistake, which should never have happened.
The CAT tool checks all possible things AND IT CAN'T detect that NOT all the source text has been segmented?
Why no error message is sent, to at least worn the user that something went wrong?

Is this a practical joke that should help translators in their job?

I'm simply furious.



[Modificato alle 2014-09-26 15:42 GMT]

[Modificato alle 2014-09-26 15:42 GMT]

[Modificato alle 2014-09-26 15:47 GMT]


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Emma Goldsmith  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 12:08
Member (2010)
Spanish to English
Updating ToCs in Word Sep 26, 2014

A Table of Contents in Word works differently from the main body of text. If you update a title half way through the document, the ToC won't update until you right click it and select "update".

Translating a Table of Contents in Studio follows the same reasoning. You won't see the change in it until you go to the Word target file, and update the ToC.

That's why it's not segmented in Studio.


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Giuseppe Bellone
Italy
Local time: 12:08
Member (2009)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Emma Sep 26, 2014

Thank you,
of course I had no idea of that problem.

For all the books I wrote myself I did not make things that complicated at all. When writing the TOC, I simply wrote a sequence of normal lines (Title of page and number of page), but obviously the world is more complicated than I am.

I do thank you for this information and I'll try again to change and reload the file to see whether Studio recognizes the TOC this time.

Thanks a lot,

Giuseppe


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Emma Goldsmith  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 12:08
Member (2010)
Spanish to English
Clarification Sep 26, 2014

Giuseppe Bellone wrote:

I'll try again to change and reload the file to see whether Studio recognizes the TOC this time.



The point I was trying to make was that you shouldn't see the ToC in Studio. Simply translate what you see in Studio, and save your target file. Then open the translated file in Word and update the ToC there.


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Giuseppe Bellone
Italy
Local time: 12:08
Member (2009)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Ah, ok Emma thanks Sep 26, 2014

So, there's nothing to do! Studio will not see the TOC and divide it into segments as it does for the other part of text.
So what I did was exactly what you say here: you have to complete the translation BY HAND after finishing the main part, is that what I understand, is that right?

The horror is that if other parts created in the same way as the TOC and hidden who knows where in the document are not recognized either, one can never be sure if Studio has seen all the text, and ONE HAS TO GO THROUGH THE WHOLE TEXT to CHECK... not the best solution, don't you agree?

But that's what I did, because I suspected something else had been forgotten,.... and it actually had in fact, there was another page similar to a TOC which had beeb completely ignored, BUT in the middle of the document!!! So much more difficult to detect than the TOC at the beginning, I only discovered it by pure chance and because I had all my doubts...

In other words I will never never NEVER TRUST the tool at all then.... sorry but that's not a serious way to work...
I'm very very DISAPPOINTED and do hope someone from the Studio supportf will give me an answer as well.... for the moment I am very very unhappy with the whole thing... ((((



[Modificato alle 2014-09-26 16:46 GMT]

[Modificato alle 2014-09-26 16:49 GMT]

[Modificato alle 2014-09-26 16:54 GMT]

[Modificato alle 2014-09-26 16:57 GMT]


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SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:08
English
Table of Contents Sep 26, 2014

Hi Giuseppe,

I think the point you are missing is that a Table of Contents in MSWord is generated by Word. Nobody wrote it in the first place, and you don't have to specifically translate.

Just translate the text in the file, save the Word file and when you open it in Word the Table of Contents can be regenerated again, but this time it will use your translated text.

The table of Contents is all code, it is not translatable text. If you do translate it in Word and overwrite it there you might destroy the way it's supposed to work and if anyone changes the text in the document that is used in the Table of Contents then you've also have to change the Table of Contents manually too!

Regards

Paul


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Giuseppe Bellone
Italy
Local time: 12:08
Member (2009)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you Paul Sep 26, 2014

Hi Paul,
thanks a lot for clarifying, I had no idea of all these problems and thought my copy of Studio I have just installed was not working properly. Hence my bad comments, sorry about that.

"Just translate the text in the file, save the Word file and when you open it in Word the Table of Contents can be regenerated again, but this time it will use your translated text."

So, I load the file onto Studio, translate what is actually divided into segments by Studio, then I save the target text, and reopen it to finish translating the TOC manually, i.e. outside Studio? Is that correct?

But what about the hidden text, among the pages of the document treated by Studio the same way? I think I can only look for them and hope to find them, or I'll deliver an incomplete translation. In other words one can never rely on the segmented text at all, something might always be ignored, as in my case, by the CAT tool.

In conclusion, after finishing the translation on Studio one is obliged to compare MANUALLY all the pages source > target to be sure nothing is missing?
Could it be more complicated?
At least Studio should worn that a part has NOT been segmented, so the user can act accordingly. Don't you agree?

I'd have never imagined that, really. And it will be rather frustrating indeed.

I do thank you for your kind help but I must underline my total disappointment in the tool, sorry,

Giuseppe

[Modificato alle 2014-09-26 17:30 GMT]


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Emma Goldsmith  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 12:08
Member (2010)
Spanish to English
Learning Word tricks Sep 26, 2014

Giuseppe Bellone wrote:

there was another page similar to a TOC which had been completely ignored, BUT in the middle of the document!!!


Studio behaviour is also correct in this situation.
A good trick to update the whole Word document in one go is to select all (Ctrl+A, or the shortcut in your Word version) and then F9.


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SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:08
English
Now I'm confused! Sep 26, 2014

Giuseppe Bellone wrote:

So, I load the file onto Studio, translate what is actually divided into segments by Studio, then I save the target text, and reopen it to finish translating the TOC manually, i.e. outside Studio? Is that correct?



No it's not! The TOC is generated by MSWord. You have already translated it, you just need Word to use it!

Giuseppe Bellone wrote:

But what about the hidden text, among the pages of the document treated by Studio the same way? I think I can only look for them and hope to find them, or I'll deliver an incomplete translation. In other words one can never rely on the segmented text at all, something might always be ignored, as in my case, by the CAT tool.



Maybe the hidden text is defined as hidden in Word? Maybe it's come from somewhere else altogether (so is referred via some code and is not really text in the document) and is not available for Studio to handle? I think you need to understand that if the text is not extractable, or if you are using hidden text to deliberately exclude it from translation (this happens, and there is an option for it in Studio), then Studio is working as intended.

Send me your file if you're allowed and I'll happily take a look at it for you.

Regards

Paul
pfilkin@sdl.com


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Giuseppe Bellone
Italy
Local time: 12:08
Member (2009)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Paul, but the confusion is enourmous on my side Sep 26, 2014

You said,

"""No it's not! The TOC is generated by MSWord. You have already translated it, you just need Word to use it!"""

Ok, the TOC is generated by WORD, I believe you. BUT how can I have translated it if I DID NOT SEE the TOC words segmented in the editor of Studio?
Are you saying that among the words I translated there also were the TOC lines and I DID NOT recognize them, but they were there?
Are you saying that the actual TOC words were translated by me although I did not recognized the TOC lines/words? How can that be possible?

Otherwise WHERE can the translated words of the TOC be taken from?
Where does Word take the translated version of it? I could not see it neither in the segments nor in the preview that pops up on the right of the editor, in the preview THOSE words were still in the source version, and how could it be otherwise, if I have not even seen them in the segments, let alone translated.

Sorry, I may be rather stupid but the target version of the TOC must come from somewhere, and if I have not translated it (or at least I have not seen the actual source words of the TOC segmented, so where could they have been?), where can it be taken from?

Unfortunately, due to strictly reserved contents I can't send you the file.

But when I receive a file from the costumer how can I know if there are all these problems in the text? I see the text and load it on Studio and would happily start translating, BUT it's not that simple then!!
How can I know what Studio can see and what it can't, sorry, but it's not as simple as all tutorials want to show, you probably agree with me, at least on this point.

Thank you for your patience, I must be a hopeless case.(

Giuseppe

[Modificato alle 2014-09-26 18:36 GMT]

[Modificato alle 2014-09-26 18:47 GMT]


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Giuseppe Bellone
Italy
Local time: 12:08
Member (2009)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you Emma Sep 26, 2014

... for the info.
That's another complicated issue as well... unfortunately..
I'll try everything, but I'm always afraid of making things even worse.(

Giuseppe


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SDL Community  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:08
English
Maybe this will help... Sep 26, 2014

Giuseppe Bellone wrote:

Ok, the TOC is generated by WORD, I believe you. BUT how can I have translated it if I DID NOT SEE the TOC words segmented in the editor of Studio?
Are you saying that among the words I translated there also were the TOC lines and I DID NOT recognize them, but they were there?
Are you saying that the actual TOC words were translated by me although I did not recognized the TOC lines/words? How can that be possible?

Otherwise WHERE can the translated words of the TOC be taken from?
Where does Word take the translated version of it? I could not see it neither in the segments nor in the preview that pops up on the right of the editor, in the preview THOSE words were still in the source version, and how could it be otherwise, if I have not even seen them in the segments, let alone translated.

Sorry, I may be rather stupid but the target version of the TOC must come from somewhere, and if I have not translated it (or at least I have not seen the actual source words of the TOC segmented, so where could they have been?), where can it be taken from?



When you create a document in Word you give the different sections of the document titles, or heading styles. When you generate a Table of Contents in Word it is generated by using these headings. You stipulate how deep you want to go for the table of contents too... so use H1, H2 and that's it, or use all the way to H5... for example.

The table of contents is then generated by Word using these headings and the page numbers are automatically updated in the table of contents because Word knows where these headings are.

So when you open a file with a Table of Contents in it in Studio we don't need to see it. This is because you only need to translate the headings in the document and you will see these. Then when you have finished Word will regenerate the Table of Contents using the translated headings and Bob's your Uncle

I found a very clear and well explained video on how Word does all of this. The numbering, the table of contents etc... all of this will be hidden by Studio because they are not needed. They are all automatically handled in Word.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G7lr_7qqkc

Hope this explains a little better.

Regards


Paul


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