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Trados "matches" - a total scam!
Thread poster: Dr. Steven Jefferson

Dr. Steven Jefferson
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:22
Member (2010)
German to English
+ ...
Feb 24, 2015

I don't offer discounts for any Trados matches that are less than 100% for one very good reason: these supposed matches cause me more work, not less.

Today's spectacular fail: Mitteltemperatur = Lunch break = 90% match!!!!

Well done Trados!


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Michal Fabian  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 08:22
Member (2012)
Dutch to Slovak
+ ...
How is this news? Feb 24, 2015

Yes, it's frustrating. It's also something everyone who has ever worked with Trados knows. What do you wish to discuss?

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Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:22
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
True, but... Feb 24, 2015

Dear Steven,

Your general point certainly is true: Studio's matching algorithm really doesn't make much sense, and like you, I don't offer any discounts for fuzzy matches.

However, you may be suffering from one or two separate problems: A bad matching algorithm and/or a bad TM. Studio can only match what's in your TM. The extreme example would be that if you confirmed that segment (Mitteltemperatur = lunch break), it will be a 100% match the next time, even if it doesn't make any sense.

Instead of comparing source to target, you should be comparing "Mitteltemperatur" to the other source segment that Studio thinks is a 90% match.


[Bearbeitet am 2015-02-24 12:10 GMT]


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Dr. Steven Jefferson
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:22
Member (2010)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Reply to Erik Feb 24, 2015

Erik Freitag wrote:

Instead of comparing source to target, you should be comparing "Mitteltemperatur" to the other source segment that Studio thinks is a 90% match.


[Bearbeitet am 2015-02-24 12:10 GMT]


Hi Erik; the original segment match was Mittagspause = lunch break. Trados has obvisouly matched Mittag to Mittel and pause to temperatur. Weird.


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Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule

Decipherit  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:22
Portuguese to English
+ ...
Only discounts for repetitions Feb 24, 2015

I don't offer discounts for 100% matches, only for repetitions. 9 times out of 10 the TM provided is sub-standard and those 100% matches require reworking. If a client is so confident in the accuracy of the 100% matches they can lock the segment.

[Edited at 2015-02-24 15:21 GMT]


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Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:22
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
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Indeed Feb 24, 2015

Steven Jefferson wrote:

Erik Freitag wrote:

Instead of comparing source to target, you should be comparing "Mitteltemperatur" to the other source segment that Studio thinks is a 90% match.


[Bearbeitet am 2015-02-24 12:10 GMT]


Hi Erik; the original segment match was Mittagspause = lunch break. Trados has obvisouly matched Mittag to Mittel and pause to temperatur. Weird.


Indeed (just tried it) - just another proof that Studio's matching algorithm is nonsense, then.


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Anton Konashenok  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 14:22
Russian to English
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Match algorithm evolution Feb 24, 2015

These weird matches Steven is talking about seem to have appeared somewhere between Trados 7.1 and Trados 2007 - essentially, after SDL bought Trados. However, disruptive as they are, they only affect very short segments (1-2 words). No such problems with longer segments.

[Edited at 2015-02-24 13:51 GMT]


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Meta Arkadia
Local time: 19:22
English to Indonesian
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Prefix Matching? Feb 24, 2015

Anton Konashenok wrote:
No such problems with longer segments.


Can you offer an explanation for that?

To me, it resembles what they call "Prefix Matching" in CafeTran.



I have no doubt it works well for some source languages, and with certain settings. I switched it off. Like OFF!

Cheers,

Hans

[Edited at 2015-02-24 14:30 GMT]


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Rachel Fell  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:22
French to English
+ ...
re the discussion of such a topic Feb 24, 2015

It's also of interest to people who don't use Trados and who have encountered various percentages of useless "matches" when using SDLX.

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Meta Arkadia
Local time: 19:22
English to Indonesian
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Don't bother Feb 24, 2015

Meta Arkadia wrote:

Anton Konashenok wrote:
No such problems with longer segments.


Can you offer an explanation for that?


I think I understand, Anton. The prefix matching algorithm works for longer segments just as well (...), but the silly matching percentage will be much lower, of course.

You know what I think? I can't tell here.

Cheers,

Hans


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 14:22
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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Yes, exclude short segments from matching Feb 24, 2015

Anton Konashenok wrote:
They only affect very short segments (1-2 words). No such problems with longer segments.


It happens in other CAT tools, too. The key would be count short segments separately. Can any current CAT tools do that?


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Philippe Etienne  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 14:22
Member
English to French
Interesting Feb 24, 2015

Meta Arkadia wrote:
...
To me, it resembles what they call "Prefix Matching" in CafeTran.

I seem to have heard about "prefix matching" (MemoQ?), but I hadn't figured out that it could tip the weighted analysis one way or another.

CAT tools definitely embed a lot of ways to decrease weighted wordcounts (therefore money) while not providing any "acceleration" whatsoever! As a former Trados 3 user, I have only digested the widespread use of the dynamic match/internal fuzzy/homogeneity/whatever-it's-called option by increasing my base rate accordingly.

Philippe


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Meta Arkadia
Local time: 19:22
English to Indonesian
+ ...
Of course not Feb 24, 2015

Samuel Murray wrote:
The key would be count short segments separately.

The key would be not to count those silly prefix matches. Next step is Auto-Complete (or whatever they call it) matches. Besides, I don't even believe in 100% matches, and not in 100% context matches either if not human checked. For the time being anyway.

Cheers,

Hans


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Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:22
English to German
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Fuzzy business Feb 24, 2015

Steven Jefferson wrote:

I don't offer discounts for any Trados matches that are less than 100% for one very good reason: these supposed matches cause me more work, not less.

Today's spectacular fail: Mitteltemperatur = Lunch break = 90% match!!!!

Well done Trados!


And still, so many fail to understand this.
I arrive at my rates by looking at many factors, and certain repetitions are only one factor.
But many outsourcers are trying to apply discounts based simply on these matches and there must be translators out there accepting it. It's so convenient, using these CAT tool analyses.
Fuzzy matching is a fuzzy business (IMO). And I don't mean the fluffy kind.

[Edited at 2015-02-24 18:02 GMT]


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Trados "matches" - a total scam!

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