Text elements turned into Trados protected tags
Thread poster: Sylvain Leray

Sylvain Leray  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:14
Member (2003)
German to French
Mar 26, 2005

Trados FL 6.5.5.438 (439) with Word 2002

Hi, I have a quite complex Word document prepared (by the agency) with the Bookmark Handler.
At some points, the paragraph numbers (like 6.1.2 for example), which are normally created automatically and treated as non translatable, turn into Trados protected tags after I translate the corresponding title (i.e. they appear in this specific tw4winMark-style).

I fear that the whole formatting of my document then goes lost, or that there are problems when cleaning up the doc.

Do you have any idea of what's happening?

MTIA,
Sylvain

[Edited at 2005-03-26 12:47]


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Sylvain Leray  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:14
Member (2003)
German to French
TOPIC STARTER
A kind of catastrophe... Mar 26, 2005

Well, the same problem occurs now when I reopen an already translated segment to edit it : the whole segment turns into tw4winMark-style and I can not modify it (protected tags).

The only workaround i've found is to "cancel" the translation and get the source again, to format the segment with the proper style and reopen it to translate it again.

Any hint?
Thanks in advance!


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Antoní­n Otáhal
Local time: 13:14
Member (2005)
English to Czech
+ ...
VBA code Mar 26, 2005

Are you translating in TagEditor, or using the Word interface of Trados? I suppose the latter - in this case a suitable Word VBA "macro" could save you. It may be worth developing (1) depending on the size of your document; (2) if you positively know that the process you describe really helps and the problems is only in "too many repetitions".

How much do you know about VBA?

Antonin


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Sylvain Leray  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:14
Member (2003)
German to French
TOPIC STARTER
VBA Mar 27, 2005

Hi Antonin,

Thanks for your answer. I'm not familiar with VBA, and I'm afraid it won't help me to write a macro.
I would simply like to know where the problem could come from, and how to fix it so that I can deliver the document without any problem.

Thank you,
Sylvain


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
My Trados Credo Mar 27, 2005

Hi Sylvain!

To avoid several problems with Trados:

1. If there is any way to save the doc as rtf without loosing anything, you should do so and translate it in TagEditor.

2. In case you have to translate it in Word, you should always have everything visible, i.e. no Text or whatever hidden.

3. It can help to use the Trados pretranslate feature to segment the text (even if the target segments remain empty). A pre-segmented text can be processed much faster and this leaves Word less time to produce errors, which often happen because of internal time-outs.

HTH,
Harry

[Edited at 2005-03-27 12:03]


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Sylvain Leray  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:14
Member (2003)
German to French
TOPIC STARTER
Re Mar 27, 2005

Hi Harry,

Harry_B wrote:

1. If there is any way to save the doc as rtf without loosing anything, you should do so and translate it in TagEditor.


I will give it a try, but AFAIK, TagEditor can handle only tagged rtf-documents (called RTF Workbench).

2. In case you have to translate it in Word, you should always have everything visible, i.e. no Text or whatever hidden.


I always do so.

3. It can help to use the Trados pretranslate feature to segment the text (even if the target segments remain empty). A pre-segmented text can be processed much faster and this leaves Word less time to produce errors, which often happen because of internal time-outs.


The text was already pretranslated by the agency and produced the same errors. I've created a copy of the document and cleaned it in another memory to obtain a non-pretranslated text, and I noticed that Word managed my text faster and with less failures... (except for this one, of course).

Thank you Harry, and Frohe Ostern

Sylvain


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Daniel García
English to Spanish
+ ...
Could it be in the paragraph marks? Mar 27, 2005

At some points, the paragraph numbers (like 6.1.2 for example), which are normally created automatically and treated as non translatable, turn into Trados protected tags after I translate the corresponding title (i.e. they appear in this specific tw4winMark-style).


Hi, Sylvain,

If you make the paragraph makrs of the source document (befor translating) visible, do they already have the wrong formatting already?

That could be the reason why Trados is applying the wrong formatting.

Maybe searching for "^p" and replacing with "^p" (paragraph mark in both cases) applying the "Default paragraph font" as the style in the formatting options for the replacement might help...

Good luck!

Daniel


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
Is there any problem, actually? Mar 28, 2005

Sylvain Leray wrote:
...I fear that the whole formatting of my document then goes lost, or that there are problems when cleaning up the doc.

Did you try to clean up the document after translation of those parts?

Maybe Trados is just protecting the source text as it should do.

I remember observing a disturbing renumbering when I opened such segments, but after translation and clean-up the target file was ok.

[Edited at 2005-03-28 07:02]


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Sylvain Leray  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:14
Member (2003)
German to French
TOPIC STARTER
Maybe... Mar 28, 2005

dgmaga wrote:


If you make the paragraph makrs of the source document (befor translating) visible, do they already have the wrong formatting already?

That could be the reason why Trados is applying the wrong formatting.




Hi Daniel,

I think you're not very far from it... the paragraph marks of the source text are OK, BUT : when I open the first segment of a paragraph, the paragraph mark at the end of it turns indeed in tw4winMark. I can still process the text though, but when I try to edit a segment, it then appears in tw4winMark.

It's still a mystery.
As for the paragraph numbers, I think it will be a problem when cleaning up, sinc Trados erases all the tw4winMark-text parts.

Sylvain, puzzled.


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
Why think and fear - when you can try and see? Mar 28, 2005

Sylvain Leray wrote:
...As for the paragraph numbers, I think it will be a problem when cleaning up, since Trados erases all the tw4winMark-text parts.

You don't have to postpone the clean-up until you will have finished the document. You could clean up a copy now and see the results immediatly..


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Sylvain Leray  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:14
Member (2003)
German to French
TOPIC STARTER
Harry :) Mar 28, 2005

That was just what I was thinking, so I did a clean up of a copy and... well, I must admit that the paragraph numbers are still there.
BUT they are still in this little violett font (tw4winMark), and so are all the paragraph marks of the document. This can be easily fixed with Daniel's search and replace solution, indeed.


Well, that's reassuring to know it, but still tiresome to handle... and frustrating not to know where it can come from.

Thank you both
Have a nice monday!

Sylvain


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marie-christine périé  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 13:14
English to French
+ ...
Exactly same problem here May 12, 2009

Hello Sylvain,

Did you find a way out since 2005 (if you still remember the problem...). The very same thing has been happening to me for some time, and I'm beginning to find it a bit aggravating!
I'd be grateful for any idea,

Marie-Christine


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Sylvain Leray  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:14
Member (2003)
German to French
TOPIC STARTER
- May 12, 2009

marie-christine périé wrote:

Hello Sylvain,

Did you find a way out since 2005 (if you still remember the problem...). The very same thing has been happening to me for some time, and I'm beginning to find it a bit aggravating!
I'd be grateful for any idea,

Marie-Christine


Hello Marie-Christine,

I really had forgotten this one...

I think the best way would be translating your document in TagEditor.

If it is not possible, for whatever reason, I would try to replace all the paragraph marks with new, no formatted paragraph marks.
The problem is often in the paragraph marks (in recent jobs I've done, too), which contains many information about formatting and often induces Trados to behave very strangely.

Good luck!
Sylvain


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marie-christine périé  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 13:14
English to French
+ ...
Thank you Sylvain May 12, 2009

Replacing all the paragraph marks with new ones doesn't solve the problem, but thanks anyway for taking the time to answer.

Marie-Christine


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