How often does bilingual review actually work, for you?
Thread poster: Samuel Murray

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 13:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Jun 12

Hello

I have a feeling that 9 out of 10 times that I try to update from bilingual review (Trados 2015), the update fails, and I end up having to redo the edits manually within Trados itself. Tonight, again, "index out of range" error. This leaves me wondering whether this feature actually works for most people, or not.

If you use the bilingual review feature in Trados to import tracked edits, how often does it end up NOT working for you?

Thanks
Samuel


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Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.)  Identity Verified
Thailand
Local time: 19:46
Member (2004)
English to Thai
+ ...
100% Jun 12

Samuel Murray wrote:

Hello

I have a feeling that 9 out of 10 times that I try to update from bilingual review (Trados 2015), the update fails, and I end up having to redo the edits manually within Trados itself. Tonight, again, "index out of range" error. This leaves me wondering whether this feature actually works for most people, or not.

If you use the bilingual review feature in Trados to import tracked edits, how often does it end up NOT working for you?

Thanks
Samuel


It is surprising but I tried the external review pane and it was usually not functional. I never expect more. The newer Trados version may successfully install this function.

Dr. Soonthon Lupkitaro
Bangkok


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Vladimir Matviyenko  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 14:46
Member (2008)
Russian to German
+ ...
I had the same experience Jun 12

The feature worked only one time. Three further attempts were not successful. But I found it even useful as I had to analyze every correction properly and change some entries at Multiterm. Otherwise, I wouldn’t care about corrections at all .

[Edited at 2017-06-12 03:25 GMT]

[Edited at 2017-06-12 03:26 GMT]


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 14:46
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Works fine Jun 12

Do you mean Batch tasks > Export for Bilingual Review? It works very well and I have used it at least since Studio 2011. Only I would like the Word-files would be set to NOT to track changes. I always do a check on the export files before I sent the target files to my proof reader, so he does not see my worst misspellings. Because Word spelling checker does not work in Studio, so I use this approach.
Update works ok too from bilingual Review. Every time.

[Bearbeitet am 2017-06-12 11:54 GMT]

[Bearbeitet am 2017-06-12 18:46 GMT]


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Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:46
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Close to 100% Jun 12

I use this feature for every single project, in order to make use of a Word-based spelling and grammar checker that is far better than what Studio offers.

I'd say it works flawlessly 999 out of 1000 times.


[Edited at 2017-06-12 15:35 GMT]


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Arianne Farah  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 07:46
Member (2008)
English to French
Had the same problem; found a work-around Jun 12

1st caveat : I don't actually do a bilingual review in the bilingual review mode - I run a spellcheck and a 3rd party grammar check on the translation part only.

I found that running the spellcheck would sometimes enact invisible changes to the source column (ie. not picked up by the tracked changes); this is based on a ton of correlation, but no actual solid proof.

So now I generate the bilingual review file. I open it. I turn off tracked changes. I open a new Word document. I select the first 3 columns (everything except translation) and I cut & paste it in the new Word document. At that point I go back to the review file, I turn on tracked changes if it's an edit for a client and they want to see markups, or leave it off if it's just for me. I run my spell checker and my grammar checker. Once I'm done, I go and copy the 3 columns from the new unsaved Word document and paste them back in the empty columns of the review file (I deactivate tracked changes before if it was turned on). I've done this with files with over 25,000 TU cells without trouble.

It's a lot of steps, but it takes less than a minute total and then you don't have the risk that Trados will reject the document.

Thankfully my grammar software has an app that integrates it into Studio and I don't have to go through this rigmarole for every file, but once it in a while the app refuses to run and I go back to this old procedure.

If you've already done the review work and it won't upload you can salvage the situation by 1) renaming the review file with the work done 2) reexporting the review document (must do step 1, or this will squash the older file) 3) copying the first 3 columns from the new export and 4) pasting those columns in the saved/buggy file (you can also do the opposite if you don't care about preserving your tracked changes, ie. copy & pasting the 4th column from the buggy file to the new export).


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Siegfried Armbruster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:46
Member (2004)
English to German
+ ...
Works fine Jun 12

Heinrich Pesch wrote:
Because Word spelling checker does not work in Studio, so I use this approach.


What do you mean by "Word spelling checker does not work in Studio". It works fine in Studio 2017. I remember that there was a problem with importing the bilingual files back in Studio, but I am not sure what it was. I have the vage idea that it had something to do with a version conflict between different Word versions, such as you are working wth Word 2007, but the review is done in Word 2003. But this was at least 2 years ago. Now it just works fine, and we are using it for almost every project.


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Emma Goldsmith  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:46
Member (2010)
Spanish to English
Export for External Review – a detour Jun 13

Samuel Murray wrote:

I have a feeling that 9 out of 10 times that I try to update from bilingual review (Trados 2015), the update fails, and I end up having to redo the edits manually within Trados itself. Tonight, again, "index out of range" error.


Have you read Paul Filkin's article on what can go wrong and how to avoid those problems? A few years old, but still relevant:
https://multifarious.filkin.com/2014/07/26/efer-ad/

To answer your question, the few times I've used the bilingual review it's worked fine.


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 14:46
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Not here Jun 14

Siegfried Armbruster wrote:

Heinrich Pesch wrote:
Because Word spelling checker does not work in Studio, so I use this approach.


What do you mean by "Word spelling checker does not work in Studio". It works fine in Studio 2017. I remember that there was a problem with importing the bilingual files back in Studio, but I am not sure what it was. I have the vage idea that it had something to do with a version conflict between different Word versions, such as you are working wth Word 2007, but the review is done in Word 2003. But this was at least 2 years ago. Now it just works fine, and we are using it for almost every project.


On my machine I had installed Office 2010 first, but the spelling package war not available anymore for 2010, so I bought 2016 and installed it. Studio 2015 was not able to find the plug-in for Word spellchecker. I thought it was because Office 2010 was still there, so I de-installed 2010. No help. Yesterday I installed Studio 2017, but it cannot find the plug-in for Word. Perhaps it would help to install Office 2003, but I do not want to mix up things even more.
Fortunately Studio 2017 at least opens on the monitor where it was closed last, so 2017 is an improvement over 2015 in that respect.
On my old machine with Office 2010 and Studio 2015 Word spellchecker works all right.
But I can do without.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 13:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
@Heinrich and @Emma Jun 14

Heinrich Pesch wrote:
Only I would like the Word-files would be set to NOT to track changes.


This is why I love the non-ribbon in Word 2003. The shortcut for enabling/disabling tracked changes is the same in Word 2003 and Word 2016 (Shift+Ctrl+E), but in Word 2016 you can't see whether you've just turned it on, or just turned it off, unless you happen to be on the relevant tab in the ribbon. In Word 2003, the relevant toolbar becomes visible by itself as soon as you use the shortcut, so you can immediately see whether you've just turned track changes on or off, without having to switch tabs.

By the way, just in case someone says "you should not use Word 2003", although I edit the target in Word 2003, I perform the act of pasting it back using Word 2016 only. This means that the file I use for bilingual review is never edited in Word 2003.

Emma Goldsmith wrote:
Have you read Paul Filkin's article on what can go wrong and how to avoid those problems? A few years old, but still relevant:
https://multifarious.filkin.com/2014/07/26/efer-ad/


Yes, I posted my problem to the Trados forums on their web site, and they referred me to Paul's article. I already apply all of those tips when dealing with bilingual review. The workarounds mentioned in Paul's article involve losing the tracked changes, which defeats the purpose.

I wish I could make sense of the error message that Trados gives me, so that I may be able to figure out what causes the problem, so as to avoid it. The error message I got most recently was "Index out of range. Must be non-negative and less than the size of the collection." plus a segment number. If I replace that segment's target text with its corresponding source text, and try again, I get the same error message, but with a new segment number.



[Edited at 2017-06-14 07:56 GMT]

[Edited at 2017-06-14 07:57 GMT]


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 13:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
dup Jun 14

dup

[Edited at 2017-06-14 07:57 GMT]


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MollyRose  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:46
Member (2010)
English to Spanish
+ ...
It works for me Jun 14

I have Trados 2014 Professional. I don't export for external review very often because my coworker and I create packages for each other to review. But the few times I have done the external review, it worked--that is, after I read an article by Nora Díaz on how to do it right. You can search she´s written quite a number of articles on how to do stuff in Trados, and they´re very detailed (not leaving out important info that others apparently assume you know). I have also had to look at the tracked changes and manually make the changes in Trados. I´m glad those documents weren´t very long!

It sounds like you already know how to do it, since you can already import and open. But maybe you will find some detail in Nora´s article that you were missing.

Or maybe in Word you could try: Open and repair, instead of just open. Maybe the Word doc gets corrupted sometimes.

I don´t have any other suggestions to try, sorry.


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