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TTX to Word Converter: requesting beta testers
Thread poster: Luis José Quirindongo

Luis José Quirindongo  Identity Verified
Puerto Rico
Local time: 11:47
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Apr 27, 2005

Hello to everyone,

I decided to post this because I have noticed that many translators hate working in Trados TagEditor, mostly due to how restrictive it can be on working with external tags (and how it tends to botch conversions for certain files).

I developed an application which converts TTX files into MS Word (*.DOC) format, and later exports them back to TTX, to deal with this problem. The app is really past the beta phase by now, but I would like to ask if some of you would like to beta test the application. (I need to perform this test to see how it behaves in other versions of Trados/MS Word/Windows, so I can add some new features to it later.)

If you like the program, you can keep it and use it, and you would also have free access to any updates. Current features include importing TTX files into Word and exporting to TTX, and batch conversion from TTX to DOC and DOC/RTF to TTX. (There is also a bonus feature, the TWB button, which lets you start Workbench from Word if it is not currently running without going to Start>Programs>Trados, etc.) The program adds a four-button toolbar to Word.


Before i post the details on how to use the programs and current/future features, etc. I would like to know if some of you are willing to participate in the beta test, and I'd also like to know if you think there is room in the market for an app like this. One note: you do not need TagEditor or Trados installed to run the app but, of course, you would need it to pass through the segments in Word and also for the TWB button to work.


Awaiting your replies,
Luis Quirindongo


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 18:47
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
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Thanks for the offer! Apr 27, 2005

I was a bit relactant too at first, but after all TagEditor is better than Word, as it controls the number and kind of tags in the target text. TagEditor was developed to circumvent the worst disadvantages of Word.
You should see this from the standpoint of the oursourcer, which has to translate a bunch of dtp files into maybe twenty languages. By using TagEditor we translators help to speed up the process, because there is less need for post-editing. If we circumvent TagEditor and use Word, there is bound to be more errors in the target files.
After all most CAT-systems nowadays use own editors, because its too easy to spoil tags in Word.

Regards

Heinrich


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Luis José Quirindongo  Identity Verified
Puerto Rico
Local time: 11:47
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Tag protection in TE vs. Word Apr 27, 2005

Hello, Heinrich,

You make a good point. TagEditor's best feature is its tag protection, which Word doesn't really provide.

However, I should note that the application does mark the TTX tags as protected in Word (since they are formatted as tw4winExternal, Trados blocks the Backspace key when the cursor is in front of them), except for the internal ones, and the segmenting feature in Trados's Word implementation skips the tags. So far I have not run into file errors upon conversion (at least not after I debugged the program), since the current version of the app pastes everything into the TTX file as plain text (the styles, markers, etc. that Word adds are ignored to prevent errors).

Also, existing translation units in the TTX are converted to Word format, i.e. {0>Source(hidden text)Target text


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Jabberwock  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 17:47
Member (2004)
English to Polish
Might be interesting... Apr 27, 2005

It might come in handy... I have two questions, though:

- does it convert any TTX files?
- does it protect the tags in any way (e.g. as Word fields, etc.)?


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Luis José Quirindongo  Identity Verified
Puerto Rico
Local time: 11:47
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Tag protection in TTX2DOC Apr 27, 2005

Hi,

I posted this in a previous reply to Heinrich's earlier post but it hasn't shown up on the thread... just so you know in case it shows up duplicated later.

The app converts ANY type of TTX to Word, no matter the original format of the TTX file. I'd like to point out that this is different from copying and pasting from the TagEditor screen into Word. When you do that the tags are marked as internal/external but what you get is the original source file for the TTX, not the code inside the TTX. With the converter, the tags are placed in a uniform format that works for ANY tags (like TagEditor itself does) and are separated into external/internal. When it exports, the resulting TTX can be converted into its original version with TagEditor without problems, though future versions of the app will do this conversion directly.

The tags ARE protected in the DOC file. The app marks them as tw4winInternal, which is a style that Trados protects (the Backspace key is disabled when the cursor is to the right of a letter in this style). Internal tags do not have the same protection. However, the tags are skipped when you pass the segments in Word, so you should be fine as long as you don't intentionally try to get around the tag protection. I didn't use Word fields because it could actually be worse than putting tags in text (if you click Backspace on the tag the whole tag would get deleted).

The program does a series of thing upon importing:

1) Extracts the TTX source code into Word (as plain text initially).
2) Separates the tags into external and internal (both are placed as hidden text, and the standard Trados styles for internal/external tags are applied.) The segmentation skips these when you work in Word.
3) If you had translated any segments in TagEditor prior to converting the file, no problem, these will be converted into Word format, i.e. {0>Source (hidden text)Target textSource textTarget text


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ABOVE
Local time: 17:47
English to Polish
+ ...
Other tools? Apr 27, 2005

Hello,

You are aware of the Quintillian Tageditor-Word converter, aren't you?

BTW, some years back myself I wrote a word macro which converts TTX to DOC too, protecting the source and tags with section breaks - I may post it, if needed/interested. We use it quite often for tricky Quark jobs, in fact.

Ryszard


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Luis José Quirindongo  Identity Verified
Puerto Rico
Local time: 11:47
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Re: Other tools Apr 27, 2005

I don't know why my posts keep getting cut when posting to the forum , but I'll assume it must be a bug. Anyway, I have not tried Quintillian, but I couldn't find the program when I Googled it. I would have to try it before I can make a comparison.

This does have other features aside from conversion, or at least it will have, once I get it past the beta test.


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Ozethai  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 02:47
Thai to English
+ ...
Yes, if there is a recourse to go back to its current status after testing Apr 27, 2005

Yes please post the program you wrote.

As a user of TRADOS I am willing to test your "routine" for you. Please tell me also how to get my TRADOS and WORD2003 back to their original states before incorporating your icons/programs.

Thanks for the offer.

Cheers,


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NancyLynn
Canada
Local time: 11:47
Member (2002)
French to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
It's one of the characters you're using, Luis Apr 27, 2005

In replicating the tag characters you have naturally included the 'greater than' sign, which automatically cuts off the rest of your post.

HTH
N


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Anjo Sterringa  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 17:47
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Volunteer... Apr 27, 2005

I have Trados Freelance 6.5.5. and Wordfast (and SDLX) - I like wordfast a lot more, and I can even imagine that I could import the .doc file into SDLX (2004) for translation - even better!
I don't like tag-editor and proofreading is difficult.

I wouldn't mind giving it a try! You can reach me through my profile.

Anjo


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Daniel García
English to Spanish
+ ...
Another couple of links for TTX to Word converters Apr 27, 2005

Luis Jose Quirindongo wrote:

I developed an application which converts TTX files into MS Word (*.DOC) format, and later exports them back to TTX, to deal with this problem. The app is really past the beta phase by now, but I would like to ask if some of you would like to beta test the application. (I need to perform this test to see how it behaves in other versions of Trados/MS Word/Windows, so I can add some new features to it later.)


Hi, Luis,

You may also want to have a look at these two tools:

This one is from ecm Engineering:
http://www.ecm-e.de/cm_en/downloads.php?cat_id=3

And this other one is from the Trados users list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TW_users/files/Utilities/Utilities%20from%20Users/

Both convert TTX to RTF but both need Trados installed, which is not so good if you don't have Trados.

In addition, I see more of a problem to make the inverse conversion back to TTX once you have translated the RTF file.

Good luck!

Daniel


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Luis José Quirindongo  Identity Verified
Puerto Rico
Local time: 11:47
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Feature summary (Correction) Apr 27, 2005

Hello to all,

Thank you all for your posts. Before I post the replies I would like to make the corrections to my earlier posts (the ones that got chopped due to the use of the GT symbol).

Please see the complete feature and usage summary for the program below, which should answer some of the questions posted earlier.

=============================================================

The four buttons of the program perform different functions. Here is a brief description of what you'll see when you click each one:

TWB: Stands for Translator's WorkBench. This opens the Trados Workbench straight from Word if it is not currently running. The feature is included here as a bonus. It can be used separately from the import/export functions, no matter which document you're working on (i.. whether it was imported from TTX or not.) Of course, this will return an error if Trados is not installed.

Import: Lets you open a TTX file in Word. When you click this you will see a dialog in which you can select the TTX file you want to open. Once you select it, you will see a small window (or rather a window title) appear, which will let you know how the import is progressing. Please note that importing is much slower than exporting in this app, while it's not significantly slow. For a 400 KB TTX file an import can take between 10 and 15 seconds, depending on your processor speed.

Note that after you select the TTX file, a new Word window opens and will immediately minimize. The Word doc will be created while the window is minimized. It is recommended that you do not type into another Word document while this process is taking place (the worst known bug due to this is that the tags do not appear as hidden text, but still, just to make sure.) After the conversion finishes the progress window will dissapear and the doc will maximize. The Trados Workbench will automatically open if it is not open already.

Export: This exports a Word document, either in DOC or RTF format, into a TTX file. You will be asked whether you want to export the current document or a different one. if you select the second option, you will see a dialog similar to the one where you select the TTX to import, but with Word and RTF docs in the file extensions.

The export will be validated to check if it has TTX data in it before being exported. Please note that this app was designed based on Trados TagEditor language 2.0, which may or may not affect validation. For earlier (4.x and 3.x) version of Trados this could be a problem in theory, but I have not tested it yet.

Exporting is much faster than importing, as you'll notice when you try it. After exporting the exported document will be closed, though you will be asked to save changes or not before closing.

Please note that both Import and Export will display an overwrite warning if the file already exists in the same folder. This is more frequent in Export because the original file would still be in the folder, probably with the same name as the target file. Future versions will include features to save an imported/exported file anywhere. I tried to implement it in this version but ran into some trouble due to the VBA methods used. for some reason it would only run on very new versions of Office (XP, 2003).

BatchConv: imports or exports batches of files. Important: this works on all TTX or DOC/RTF files IN THE SAME FOLDER!! Once you select whether you want to import or export, you will be asked to select a file (any TTX or DOC file) in the folder you want to work on. This is done to make sure the folder you will work on initially contains one or more TTX/DOC files.

Anyway, after that the conversion will begin. This creates a log file with any errors that may have happened during import/export. Please note that the speed difference between Import and Export becomes significant here. If you plan to export 80 files to TTX, let's say, it should only take about 3 to 6 minutes. If you want to import 80 files to Word, however, I recommend taking a break, getting something to eat, etc. because this will take a while, possibly 15 or 20+ minutes.

Future versions will allow you to import/export specific files in different folders. For now I would like to know how this version behaves.


Features in future versions will (hopefully) include:

Saving imported and exported files anywhere (instead of the original folder)
Batch converting multiple folders and saving converted files to multiple folders
Exporting and importing to/from original formats (i.e. importing FrameMaker, Quark, HTML, XML, etc. etc. without the need of going through TagEditor)
Tag compression (too many red and gray tags in the imported documents so far) and definition (would theoretically let you see what the original tag looked like both in TagEditor and in the source file)
DTD support (import any file you have a valid DTD for)
DTD validation (validate files based on a selected DTD)
DTD editing (create your own DTD files)
Export to Tagged file format: i.e. converting FrameMaker to MIF and other such conversions without the need for StoryCollectors
Compilation (run the app as an EXE instead of a Word template).
Possibly an XTranslate implementation, since many of my colleagues say they miss this tool...
A custom-made API for manipulating TTX files and Trados memories, as well as a series of diff algorithms to determine the match percentage between two segments like Trados does.
Multilingual user interfaces.

Any other suggestions are also welcome. Please report bugs and send comments to ljquirin@runbox.com, including your Windows/MS Word/Trados version and a detailed description of the bug(s) found.

====================================


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Luis José Quirindongo  Identity Verified
Puerto Rico
Local time: 11:47
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Import/export process summary (Correction) Apr 27, 2005

Again, this is to complete the posts which were damaged earlier. This is a description of the import process, which explains issues such as translation unit conversion, tag protection, etc.

Once the user clicks on Import he or she sees a dialog to select the TTX file. Upon selection, the program will dothe following things:

1) Extract the TTX source code into Word. Since TagEditor converts all tags to a uniform format applicable to all source formats, the converter will work for any TTX. Future versions of the app will also perform the conversion from the original formats directly into DOC and back to the original formats directly, or optionally into TTX. Again, these features will not require that you have Trados installed.

2) Separate external and internal tags, by marking them as tw4winExternal or tw4winInternal in Word. This does three things:
a) Adds tag protection (in Word!) to extenal tags,
b) Causes the Trados segmentation in Word to skip these tags when selecting translatable segments.
c) Color the tags as red (internal) or gray (external) and set them as hidden text. Those of you who have worked with Trados for some time will probably be familiar with this format.

3) Convert existing translation units from TagEditor format into Word format. That is, if you import a TTX with some segments already translated previously in TagEditor, it is not a problem. They will be converted to Word format, with the standard purple tags that Trados uses in Word, and you will be able to pass them as segments in Word as you normally do. Also, this adds a pseudo tag around these translation units, the XTU tag, whose only attribute "Pair" caontains the language pair for the specific TU. Also, the TUs will keep the match percentage they had in TagEditor when they are converted to Word format (i.e. they will not be switched to a fixed number such as 0 or 100)

The export process does three things:
1) Eliminate the aforementioned pseudo tags, but restoring the language pair attribute to the corresponding TUV tags in TagEditor,

2) Convert all segments translated in Word into TagEditor format. The match percentage you had in Word will be the same that will show up in the resulting TTX file.

3) Paste this into a text file as TTX source code. The TTX is written as plain text so none of Word's "addons" --styles, etc etc.-- are passed to the TTX file, since Trados does not support these.

Note that steps 1 and 2 take place in memory, that is, the Word document is not edited during the export process. The information in it is used to make the exported file, but what it really does is load a copy of the file text into RAM and make the changes to this copy. Also, the TagEditor font tags (fonts that will show up in TagEditor, such as hyperlinks, etc.) are preserved during import and export.


Known drawbacks for import/export:

1) Importing is slower than exporting in the current version.

2) The tags are written into Word as text (this is not the same as copying and pasting from the TagEditor window into Word!) so the segmentation currently takes more time than in TE because the Trados segmenting macros must ckip the tags until they find translatable text. The next versions will probably include tag compression to fix this.

3) I have not had problems with the conversions yet, but just in case, please make copies of your files before you use this app on them.

Luis


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Luis José Quirindongo  Identity Verified
Puerto Rico
Local time: 11:47
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Re: Yes, if there is a recourse to go back to its current status after testing Apr 27, 2005

OzeThai wrote:

Yes please post the program you wrote.

As a user of TRADOS I am willing to test your "routine" for you. Please tell me also how to get my TRADOS and WORD2003 back to their original states before incorporating your icons/programs.

Thanks for the offer.

Cheers,



I had not yet included and uninstaller for the app, but I will add that to the program before posting the download link.

The current version of the program is really a Word template which the installer copies to Word's startup folder. To uninstall it you only need to delete the template (the uninstaller should do this automatically, however, Word should be closed before running it). Other options are to delete the template manually or simply hide the template toolbar to keep it from showing up in Word.

This program does not change anything in your installation/settings for Word, Trados or Windows.

Best,
Luis


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Luis José Quirindongo  Identity Verified
Puerto Rico
Local time: 11:47
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Re: Other tools Apr 27, 2005

dgmaga wrote:

Hi, Luis,

You may also want to have a look at these two tools:

This one is from ecm Engineering:
http://www.ecm-e.de/cm_en/downloads.php?cat_id=3

And this other one is from the Trados users list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TW_users/files/Utilities/Utilities%20from%20Users/

Both convert TTX to RTF but both need Trados installed, which is not so good if you don't have Trados.

In addition, I see more of a problem to make the inverse conversion back to TTX once you have translated the RTF file.

Good luck!

Daniel


Thank you for the links. I downloaded the programs, and will try them out to see how they work (it might also give me a few ideas).

On that note, I've also been asked a few times whether this app can convert TTXs which have been exported to RTFs with other tools back to TTX or back to their original file formats. The app structure is designed to support this kind of conversion, but I would really have to try it to find out.

Also, I still don't know what is in these RTFs. It could be the TTX source code, the source code from the original file or simply standard RTFs with bold, italic and other formats. If anyone has one or more of these files and could send them to me at ljquirin@runbox.com, I would appreciate it, so I can find out if this conversion is possible.


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