How to get an analysis in Trados 6.5 with the precise number of fuzzy matches words in source text
Thread poster: Christelle OLIVIER

Christelle OLIVIER
Local time: 10:41
English to French
Dec 4, 2005

hello,

When I run the Analyse tool in Trados 6.5 Freelance with an empty TM, I get a repetitions number of words (+ percentage) and a total number of words). For invoicing, I would need to have a precise repetitions wordcount, especially regarding 100% matches. If I run the Analyse with the TM I used and the cleaned file, I get this information but with Target words (and I need to have this count with source words). Is there a way I can do it? Thanks in advance. Christelle


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:41
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
I´m afriad you are making a mistake Dec 4, 2005

If you analyse with an empty TM, there can only be repetitions and no matches.
But if you allready have a TM for that particular customer and analyse file with this TM, you will get fuzzy matches either.

So the way it works is the following:

  • Analysing with empty TM for the first time with a new customer.
  • Analysing with an existing TM for returning customer.


In the first case you will get only repetitions (if there are any) and no matches - and that´s OK so. In the second case Trados delivers you precise number of words for repetitions, various fuzzy match types and no matches - but you can use it only when your TM is not empty.

HTH
Regards
Jerzy


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Christelle OLIVIER
Local time: 10:41
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
But I need a wordcount for fuzzy matches for the source text Dec 4, 2005

Thanks for your reply; but my problem is that actually when I analyse the source file with with a used TM, I get nearly only 100% matches, and if I use the cleaned file, I get a wordcount for fuzzy matches but based on the target text. I'm new in Trados and a bit lost...

Direct link Reply with quote
 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:41
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
You get wordcount for that file you actually analyse Dec 4, 2005

Once again:
The workflow is as follows (and we differ between new customer, empty TM AND returning customer, TM with translated segments). In both cases you run the analysis before you start to translate! So here we go:

CASE A, empty TM
Simply analyse the source file. You get repetitions and no matches. They can be used to bill the customer, depending on your agreement with him.

CASE B, TM with translated segments
Run the analysis of your source file BEFORE you start to translate. Trados will give you the exact numbers of words for different match types.

If you analyse the source file AFTER the translation is done, so you should get only 100%-matches.

HTH
Best
Jerzy


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Christelle OLIVIER
Local time: 10:41
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
I think I was not clear Dec 4, 2005

Thanks for your explanations that are very clear, Jerzy. But in this precise case, I needed to create a new TM for this new customer. I analysed the document before translating and got 94% new words and 6% repetitions with the precise number of words. BUT I have an agreement with this customer and I don't invoice the same for 100% repetitions and fuzzy matches. And this is where I am lost, since I don't know how to get the precise wordcount of 100% repetitions and fuzzy matches in the source text to invoice them...
Thanks again, if you have any idea...


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:41
English to German
+ ...
Isn't that your source analysis? Dec 4, 2005

Hi Christelle,
But in this precise case, I needed to create a new TM for this new customer.

Where would you get any fuzzy matches if you create a new TM?

I analysed the document before translating and got 94% new words and 6% repetitions with the precise number of words.

Which would appear to be the source analysis you're looking for...?

Puzzled, Ralf


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:41
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Some example Dec 4, 2005

Let´s assume, you will bill according to the following scheme:
Repetitions at 30% of your standard word rate
100-95% matches at 30% of your standard word rate
75-94% matches at 60% of your standard word rate
Less than 74% matches at 100% of your standard word rate

So your calculation for this very case will look like that (where x is your word rate; for the purpose of this example I set the total word number to 10000)
0 * x (for 100-95% matches)
600 * x * 30% (for repeptitions)
0 * x (for 75-94% matches)
9400 * x * 100% (for no matches)

In fact you will bill 9580 words instead of the previos 10000. This comes from 9400 words no match and 600 words * 30% (thus 180) for repetitions.

Would you have any other analysis with different match types, the numbers would vary.
The easiest way to get the calculation done is setting an very easy Excel table for that. If you wish, I can send you one. Please contact me via my profile and I´ll send it to you.

Best
Jerzy


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Christelle OLIVIER
Local time: 10:41
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
But what do repetitions refer to in the first analysis? Dec 4, 2005

Hi Ralf,

I'm afraid that what I don't get is what repetitions precisely mean in this analysis made previous to translating with a new TM.

When I analysed the translated document with this TM I used, I came to 93% new words, 6% repetitions (I think the addition of all fuzzy matches since none reached 1%) and 1% perfect matches (but of course the total number of words is not the same since the final doc is in French and the original in English).

Therefore I don't believe the 6% repetitions in the original file are only 100% matches within the same document (I don't mean matches with the TM but I don't know how to say it differently).

It's the first time I need to invoice a job where I had to use Trados and create a new TM. Possibly I miss a point... How do you usually do in such a case?

Christelle


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:41
English to German
+ ...
New TM, or TM provided by your customer?? Dec 4, 2005

Hi again,
Sorry, but you appear to be contradicting yourself... at the very least, the information given is somewhat confusing.

I'm afraid that what I don't get is what repetitions precisely mean in this analysis made previous to translating with a new TM.

What exactly do you mean by "new TM" - a new TM you created from scratch (i.e. an empty TM - in which case you cannot have any fuzzy matches), or did your customer provide you with TM (in which case I don't see why you would need to create a new TM)?

When I analysed the translated document with this TM I used,

Which TM? Why would you want to analyse the translated document?

Therefore I don't believe the 6% repetitions in the original file are only 100% matches within the same document (I don't mean matches with the TM but I don't know how to say it differently).

These would appear to be repetitions, i.e. segments (sentences) being repeated within the document.

How do you usually do in such a case?

Check the invoicing specifications beforehand...
Seriously: if you agreed on invoicing on the basis of source words, didn't your customer provide you with invoice details to start with?

Best regards,
Ralf


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:41
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
We shall think it over together Dec 4, 2005

And DON´T analyse the french file with your TM!! The TM does an analysis with the english text (it is EN-FR, as I assume), so the analysis results with the translated file are nonsense.

OK, so you have a long text, let´s say there are 10000 words in the file.
Then you have one special sentence, which is beeing repeated numerous times in the text. This happens for example with many security advices. One example could be "Do not drag on the wire when disconnecting the plug from the wall outlet. Drag allwasy only at the plug!" These are 20 words. If these sentences would be repeated 10 times, the total number of repeated words would be 200. This makes 2% repetitions in the whole text.
This is how it works.
Sorry I can´t make this clearer, but I hope you will get it, when you realise what the repeptition is.
A match is, when you get the following.
"Mercedes is a german car."
"BMW is a german car."
As you see, those sentences are fairly similar, but not identical. Trados is able to quantify the difference (BMW instead of Mercedesy) as a so called "fuzzy match". Please note, that this will be never found as a repeptition, becaucse repetitive sentences MUST be identical. But after you have translated one text with Mercedes and then get a new one about BMW, such occurances will get as "fuzzy matches" into the analysis.

In your special case, as a TM was empty, you can only get the indication of repetitions and no matches. This is ok so.

Best
Jerzy


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Fernando Toledo  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:41
German to Spanish
Take a look at this site Dec 4, 2005

colivier wrote:

Thanks for your explanations that are very clear, Jerzy. But in this precise case, I needed to create a new TM for this new customer. I analysed the document before translating and got 94% new words and 6% repetitions with the precise number of words. BUT I have an agreement with this customer and I don't invoice the same for 100% repetitions and fuzzy matches. And this is where I am lost, since I don't know how to get the precise wordcount of 100% repetitions and fuzzy matches in the source text to invoice them...
Thanks again, if you have any idea...



www.catcount.com

This is all you need


Rgds

Toledo


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Christelle OLIVIER
Local time: 10:41
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
More precisely Dec 4, 2005

My client is an agency I've been working with for a certain time, and for whom I usually translate using already existing TMs they provide. We have a general agreement, with different invoicing specifications for 100% matches and fuzzy matches (based on source text).

For this specific job, I had to create a TM from scratch. My PO with them only states the number of words and 6% repetitions.

What I wondered indeed was how to invoice these 6% repetitions.

When I analysed the translated document, I ran the Analyse tool using the TM I created myself before performing the translation, this TM that gave me 6% repetitions before starting the translation (I did not even know it would give me an analysis for the target French doc...)

I think I'll get in touch with the agency tomorrow and come to an agreement with them in this case.

Thanks for taking the time!

Christelle


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Christelle OLIVIER
Local time: 10:41
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
A rate for repetitions Dec 4, 2005

As I understand, what I should do in the first place is to agree upon a rate for repetitions (which in my case will certainly be slightly different from 100% matches), and the problem is solved...


Thanks again to all of you for your contribution!

Christelle


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Hynek Palatin  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 10:41
English to Czech
+ ...
Analysis Dec 4, 2005

This is how to invoice if you are translating from English to French with a new (empty) TM:

First, create an empty TM.

Then analyze the source (English) document. Let's say it shows 940 new words and 60 repetitions (1000 words in total). That's all you need for invoicing:

You charge: 940 x (your rate for new words) + 60 x (your rate for repetitions).

There are no 100% matches (or any other matches), because the TM is empty. Therefore, you might even charge for 1000 new words, if you give discount only for 100% matches and not for repetitions. It depends on your agreement with the agency.

There is no use analyzing the English document against the populated TM after finishing the translation (shows only 100% matches) or analyzing the target (French) document against the TM (shows nonsense).


Direct link Reply with quote
 


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

How to get an analysis in Trados 6.5 with the precise number of fuzzy matches words in source text

Advanced search







Anycount & Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000

Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.

More info »
PDF Translation - the Easy Way
TransPDF converts your PDFs to XLIFF ready for professional translation.

TransPDF converts your PDFs to XLIFF ready for professional translation. It also puts your translations back into the PDF to make new PDFs. Quicker and more accurate than hand-editing PDF. Includes free use of Infix PDF Editor with your translated PDFs.

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search