Why can't I change the segmentation rules?
Thread poster: Astrid Elke Witte

Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 01:24
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
Jan 25, 2006

I would like to change the segmentation rules. Ideally, I would like the TU to end after every comma for this project. However, if that cannot be done, I would like it, at the very least, to end after each semicolon. The reason for this is that I am translating a very long list of goods and services on a trademark certificate (one and a half pages long, in fact), and, at the moment, I can only get the whole page-and-a-half as a single TU. Of course, that's not practicable, especially when there are no sentences. I need to see one item in the list at the time.

I have tried, over and over again, to set the segmentation rules. There appears to be no facility for selecting a comma, but it is possible to select "Skip rules" and then put in a semicolon. It is possible then to select "OK". However, as soon as I try to open the first TU again, I get that whole page-and-a-half again. Then, as soon as I open up the segmentation rules menu again, it has changed itself back to the normal settings (full stop, and so on) automatically, behind my back. There is no way of persuading it to keep my segmentation rule of a semicolon, even for 5 seconds together.

Do I really have to go through my source document and change all the semicolons and commas to full stops? It seems a primitive way to have to carry on, and that would take up massives of time, too.

Astrid


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 01:24
English to German
+ ...
You're looking for an *end rule* Jan 25, 2006

Hi Astrid,
I have tried, over and over again, to set the segmentation rules. There appears to be no facility for selecting a comma, but it is possible to select "Skip rules" and then put in a semicolon.

That's already in there by default - what you're looking for is an end rule.

Access the Workbench Help function from the Segmentation Rules tab - context-sensitive help is available on mouse-over. This explains how to create an end rule using a comma.

HTH,
Ralf


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Antoní­n Otáhal
Local time: 01:24
Member (2005)
English to Czech
+ ...
Actually, "comma" is not on the list Jan 25, 2006

of "Stop characters" - can you somehow add your own characters to that list?

I had to resolve a similar problem once and (since I did not find out how to force the comma as a stop character) I simply used "search and replace" to put exclamation marks (since there weren't any in the original text) instead of commas, and then reverse search and replace in the target text. Perhaps too simple, but it worked.

Antonin


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Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 01:24
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
But there's no information there on how to do it Jan 25, 2006

Ralf Lemster wrote:

Access the Workbench Help function from the Segmentation Rules tab - context-sensitive help is available on mouse-over. This explains how to create an end rule using a comma.

HTH,
Ralf


Dear Ralf,

I have looked at the Workbench Help information again, and there really is no information there. It says something along the lines of to change the parameters and click OK. I have tried that many times.

On your advice, I have selected the "End rules" setting again, and then changed the picture of the full stop in the box below into a picture of a semicolon. However, I still get the whole page-and-a-half as a single TU.

Obviously Trados simply does not have the facility to deal with this problem. I will write to them and suggest this possibility for the next version of Trados that they bring out.

Astrid


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Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 01:24
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yes, I'll use search and replace on the source document Jan 25, 2006

Dear Antonin,

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, of course - I hadn't realised: on this occasion, since I have nothing else in my document besides the list of goods, with commas and semi-colons inbetween, I can use search and replace to replace them all with something else. Maybe I can use full stops for the commas and colons for the semi-colons, and then it will be easy to reverse the procedure again once I have finished.

That solution apart, I think that a supposedly sophisticated CAT tool like Trados ought to be able to offer a more sophisticated solution than that.

Thanks again.

Astrid


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Antoní­n Otáhal
Local time: 01:24
Member (2005)
English to Czech
+ ...
Well, Jan 25, 2006

I am not saying it cannot be done in a more sophisticated way. I do not know and, at the end of the day, I am not sure I even care. I usually try to complete my work the way that is the easiest and fastest from my viewpoint.

It is catch-as-catch-can when you need to meet your deadline...

Antonin


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 01:24
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
My 2 cents Jan 25, 2006

Antoní­n Otáhal wrote:

I am not saying it cannot be done in a more sophisticated way. I do not know and, at the end of the day, I am not sure I even care. I usually try to complete my work the way that is the easiest and fastest from my viewpoint.

It is catch-as-catch-can when you need to meet your deadline...

Antonin


Well, who says the most sophisticated way is the best?
You are absolutely right Antonin, the work has to be completed and the less efforts one has on it the better.
Such situations come once in some years, so IMO it is not worth to spend hours on finding a solution.

Best
Jerzy


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 01:24
English to German
+ ...
Check again... Jan 25, 2006

Hi again,
I have looked at the Workbench Help information again, and there really is no information there.

This is what's displayed when clicking on "End rules" in the screenshot displayed (the note right above the screenshot reads: "For information on a particular item, point and left-click your mouse in the relevant area."):


End Rules
Use this option to define the rules for segment boundary markers. Each end rule is based on a particular punctuation mark or stop character which is taken to indicate the end of a segment in the source text.

(...)

To add a new end rule:
1. Select the End rules option and click Add. the cursor moves to the current rule box.
2. Enter the name of the new end rule in the current rule box.
3. In the Rule group box, click the relevant item in the Stop character list. Define parameters for the new rule as required and click OK to confirm.

There's more information in that box, but as I had to type it, I just typed the relevant points.


Note that the list of stop characters does not include the comma, but it does include the semicolon.

As a workaround, I would suggest using T-Window for Clipboard.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 01:24
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Following these rules does not work Jan 25, 2006

I have done everything listed in those rules there, but it still opens up the whole page-and-a-half. I guess Trados is not exactly tailor-made for translating lists of goods and services on trademark certificates.

I actually have to translate these lists of goods and services regularly, but they are only occasionally of this length. On average, they are very short. Even then, as I like to look at each term separately, I have up to now always been using a different CAT tool - which did, however, bring its own problems with it. I therefore wanted to make another attempt to use Trados, however it transpires that it is not possible.

I will either use the other CAT tool again or the practical Search and Replace option. I have these two possibilities, anyway.

Thanks to everyone who has participated in this discussion.

Astrid


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 01:24
English to German
+ ...
T-Window for Clipboard Jan 25, 2006

Hi again,
I will either use the other CAT tool again or the practical Search and Replace option.

Exactly - hence my suggestion of using T-Window for Clipboard.

Cheers, Ralf


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