"Emulate" Word Trados translation with TagEditor
Thread poster: Antoní­n Otáhal

Antoní­n Otáhal
Local time: 05:47
Member (2005)
English to Czech
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Feb 18, 2006

When my customer wants to get the "unclean Word file" but I prefer translating the file with TagEditor, I can imagine that translating in TagEditor and then using the updated TM on the Word file will get me there nearly automatically (except for the segments with formatting tags, of course).

Is there any other way?

[Edited at 2006-02-18 11:48]


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 06:47
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Save bilingual as...? Feb 18, 2006

I have never tried this, but you probably can save the document as rtf and load it into Word.
Regards
Heinrich


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:47
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I´m afraid not Feb 18, 2006

as "Save as billingual file" produces a *.ttx, which is unreadable in Word.
So to get an uncleaned file in Word you will need to process it in Word. When you do the translation in TAG Editor (which way I recently prefere), you will have to aplly the TM to the Word file and correct the fomatting, where bold, italic and so on were used.

HTH
Jerzy


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Jabberwock  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 05:47
Member (2004)
English to Polish
Dirty trick? Feb 18, 2006

Unfortunately I do not have time to check it, but it might just work...

When you translate, save the target file as doc. Then align the source document and the target document. Provided there are no segmentation problems, it should be quick enough.

That way you have a TM with what you did in TagEditor. The difference is that it does not have tags, but regular Word formatting.

I hope it works!


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Antoní­n Otáhal
Local time: 05:47
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Actually, the alignment seems unnecessary Feb 18, 2006

since I can achieve what you describe just by running the automatic translation from the updated TM; but the formatting-tag problem is there all the time.

Oh well, it looks like this cannot be avoided.

Thank you all for your ideas.

Antonin


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:47
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Polish to German
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I think you will be faster Feb 18, 2006

if you translate and then format the document manually.

Provided the template settings are ok, ie the global formatting is not much changed, only for bold or italic to emphasize some things.

What I would do:

  • Prepare the document in Word to achieve the font type and size and other text parameters do match with the corresponding style.
  • Remove unnecessary line breaks and so on.
  • Translate with TAG Editor.
  • Change the setting for TAG penalty in your TM to 0 (zero)
  • Apply this TM automatically to Word.
  • Reformat where necessary.

If you set your Workbench to remove TAGs where no TAGs are in source (via Options - Translation Memory Options - Strip TAGs...) this should work quite quickly.

Should you have any other questions I might be able to answer - you have my email, so don´t hesitate to use it at any time you might wish.

Regards
Jerzy


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xxxOlaf
Local time: 05:47
English to German
Use Copy & Paste Feb 18, 2006

I don't know if this still works with the current version, but in older TE versions you could simply select the whole document in TE and then copy and paste it to Word and save it as an RTF document.

Olaf


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Jabberwock  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 05:47
Member (2004)
English to Polish
You're missing the point! Feb 19, 2006

Alignment is not the same as translating from the TM!

The TM you got translating in the TE will be different than the TM created on the basis of the alignment. When you align the .doc files and import the result, the formatting in the TM is not represented as tags, but as internal Workbench formatting. Which means that no matter how badly is the document formatted, you will get all 100% matches.

I have just run a short test and it works perfectly. I have used a short test document with lots of bolds and italics in it. If you want, I can describe the whole procedure step by step.


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Antoní­n Otáhal
Local time: 05:47
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To Jabberwock Feb 19, 2006

You are right, I did not realise that aspect.

Thank you.

Antonin


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:47
Member (2003)
Polish to German
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I still would not go for Alignment Feb 19, 2006

It is enough, that there are uncommon abbreviations in the file or the author has written the text badly, missusing dots, spaces and so on - you will then have a lot of work to collect your aligned result.

Usually it is faster to reformat the document manually.

Best
Jerzy


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Jabberwock  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 05:47
Member (2004)
English to Polish
Depends on the text... Feb 19, 2006

I am not saying that it will be faster than formatting it manually

It really depends on the source document - how much manual formatting is included and how many segmentation issues might occur (which are the main problem during alignment).


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Éric Cléach  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 05:47
Member (2005)
English to French
Segmentation sometimes differs between TagEditor and Workbench Feb 21, 2006

Well, there is also another problem: it seems that TagEditor doesn't always segment DOC files the same way as Workbench would do in Word, so you cannot always "translate to fuzzy" a whole file already translated in TagEditor.

I just finished translating a 5000 words DOC file within TagEditor, ie all segments are in the TM. If I run an analysis with Workbench on the original source DOC file, I still have about 500 words in 95-99% segments.

If I recreate a TTX with TagEditor from the source DOC file and run an analysis on this TTX, I only get 100% matches.

Depending on the formatting/layout (and on the quality of this formatting), I do think it can be quicker to align the DOC files, as it can also be quite time-consuming to "correct" the 95-99% matches.

Now, that would surely help a lot if you could save/export RTF/DOC bilingual files from TagEditor. I do hope that SDL will implement this feature in Trados 2006...

Also, depending on the source document, it can be even easier to copy all the document in TagEditor and to paste everything in Word. This works perfectly with files exported from FrameMaker, for instance.

Eric

[Edited at 2006-02-21 16:46]


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:47
Member (2003)
Polish to German
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The segmentation is nothing what cannot be changed Feb 21, 2006

And it rather sometimes should be changed.
So it is advisable to use enlarge or shorten segment function to get only full sentences in segments.
And alone the 1% penalty for missing TAGs will bring you to some not-100% matches when analysing Word.

Everything depends on the kind of document we are working with.

As for copy&paste into Word - I don´t think you will get a formatted billingual Word file in that way. What you will get will be a tagged file, which is perfectly good for Frame import, but will not help to provide the customer with the requested uncleaned Word file.

Regards
Jerzy


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