Why does the clean-up process sometimes remove all the corrections?
Thread poster: Astrid Elke Witte

Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:08
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
Mar 14, 2008

I make the corrections to the bilingual file, and - before cleaning it up - save a spare copy under a different name.

Then I clean up the file and sometimes (e.g. every 5th to 10th time) the cleaned up file is identical to my previous version before making any corrections.

If I examine the bak file from the second clean-up, carried out after making the corrections, sure enough, all my corrections have been removed and it represents the original file before I implemented the corrections.

If I then look at the spare copy of the file to which I made the corrections, all the corrections are there.

If I then rename the spare copy (in order to still keep the spare copy) and clean up the new file, usually the corrections are implemented the second time round.

Is there any solution to this problem, or do I just have to put up with it?

It has an effect on either timing or quality control, i.e. either I send off the old version of the translation to the client by mistake, not realising that it does not contain the corrections, or I do realise what has happened and it takes extra time to carry out the replacement clean-up, while the client is desperately waiting for the translation.

Astrid


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Alison Schwitzgebel
France
Local time: 05:08
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
Make sure that the "update TM" button is checked Mar 14, 2008

Hi Astrid!

When you clean up a file, first you need to add a file to the list of files you want to clean. Then make sure that the update TM button is checked on. Otherwise your changes will not be saved in your TM.

HTH

Alison


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Clarisa Moraña  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 01:08
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Check the settings Mar 14, 2008

When you use the "Clean up files", the option to be checked is Changed translations "Uddate TM". If, by hazard, "Uddate document" is checked, all your changes will be lost.

Kind regards

Clarisa


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Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:08
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
No, that's not the problem Mar 14, 2008

Hi Alison,
Hi Clarisa,

It has nothing to do with the settings. Those are all OK.

This morning, for instance, I translated a 2500-word file in five parts (to make Trados run quicker, because someone was waiting for the translation).

I proofread them all on paper. Then - with all the settings correct - I implemented my changes to Part 1 and cleaned it up. The changes were there, I had the revised document.

I then opened up Part 2, implemented my changes, and cleaned it up. I assumed the same had happened, opened up the new version and copied and pasted it into the final file to be sent to the client, underneath Part 1.

I did the same with Parts 3, 4 and 5.

Then I printed off the final document, and finally checked over it once more. From this it transpired that the document contained the new versions of Parts 1, 3 and 5, and the old versions of Parts 2 and 4.

I inspected my bilingual files for parts 2 and 4, and compared them with the spare copies I had saved prior to clean-up. I had indeed made all the changes, but the new bilingual file, following clean-up, no longer contained them, and the cleaned-up version was the old version.

I have noticed this happening a number of times recently.

Astrid


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Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:08
Member (2002)
German to English
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TOPIC STARTER
It is obviously a bug which we have to live with Mar 16, 2008

Let's hope that it is fixed in the next version of SDL Trados.

Astrid


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Cecilia Civetta  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 05:08
Member (2003)
Italian to Spanish
+ ...
What's the benefit of dividing the document? Mar 16, 2008

Hi Astrid,

I don't know about the bug you mention because this has never happened to me.
But apart from this problem, I was wondering how the process could become quicker by dividing a document into 5 parts? I have never experimented this either.


[Edited at 2008-03-16 21:15]


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Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:08
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
It is a slower process with a larger document Mar 16, 2008

The larger the document, the longer it takes to move from one TU to the next, and I do not have the patience to wait. Even if I did, I would be losing money waiting. With "mini documents" the move from one TU to the next is instant. Although I have a particular figure in mind that I like to earn per hour, I don't mind if I am held up by trying to get the translation absolutely right on a tricky patch, but I mind a lot if my time and money is wasted by waiting for Trados to move from one TU to the next. The time spent on dividing up the document in advance is very worthwhile. I divide EVERY document into 500-word segments. It also helps with timing the translations and therefore organising life around translation (a segment per hour).

Astrid


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Daniel García
English to Spanish
+ ...
Track changes on by accident? Mar 17, 2008


I proofread them all on paper. Then - with all the settings correct - I implemented my changes to Part 1 and cleaned it up. The changes were there, I had the revised document.

I then opened up Part 2, implemented my changes, and cleaned it up. I assumed the same had happened, opened up the new version and copied and pasted it into the final file to be sent to the client, underneath Part 1.

I did the same with Parts 3, 4 and 5.

Then I printed off the final document, and finally checked over it once more. From this it transpired that the document contained the new versions of Parts 1, 3 and 5, and the old versions of Parts 2 and 4.


Hi, Astrid,

This is really weird. You are not using revision marks in the bilingual document, right?

I inspected my bilingual files for parts 2 and 4, and compared them with the spare copies I had saved prior to clean-up. I had indeed made all the changes, but the new bilingual file, following clean-up, no longer contained them, and the cleaned-up version was the old version.


When you say "the new bilingual file, following the clean-up", do you mean the BAK file?

If that's indeed the case, then it is even more strange because, as far as I know, the BAK file is just a copy of the original DOC file without changing the content. Your comment might mean that the changes were already lost somehow even before the clean up.

You say that you are making copies of the documents before the clean-up. How are doing these copies? Are you closing the documents and copying them in the Windows Explorer or are you using the "Save as command"?

I am now wondering if it could that were following these steps:

1. Open the the bilingual document.
2. Print the document and review it.
3. Apply the changes.
4. Save the document.
5. Save the document with a different name (to keep a copy).
6. Close the document and clean up with TRADOS.

Maybe by accident, step 4 was omitted for some documents and then you cleaned up documents which didn't have the changes anymore (as you have saved them in a different folder).

I don't know, I am just guessing.

Daniel


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Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:08
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Trying to get to the bottom of it... Mar 17, 2008

dgmaga wrote:


You say that you are making copies of the documents before the clean-up. How are doing these copies? Are you closing the documents and copying them in the Windows Explorer or are you using the "Save as command"?
Daniel


Hi Daniel,

I am using the "Save as" command.

I have a document called, for example, "translation.doc". I clean it up, print it off and lay it on the table to proofread.

Then I close it and open the .BAK file, which has the name "translation.bak".

Using the "Save as" command, I rename it "translation2.doc". I proofread the document on paper, then implement my changes in "translation2.doc", close it and clean it up.

If I did not rename it at least with a "doc" instead of a "bak" extension, it would not clean up at all. Files already having a "bak" extension cannot be cleaned, in my experience.

I will scrutinise the last episode when this happened more closely and report further.

Track changes has never been used on the documents in question.

Best regards,

Astrid


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xxxNMR
France
Local time: 05:08
French to Dutch
+ ...
Do you really divide documents up in parts??? Mar 18, 2008

Astrid Elke Johnson wrote:
This morning, for instance, I translated a 2500-word file in five parts (to make Trados run quicker, because someone was waiting for the translation).

I proofread them all on paper. Then - with all the settings correct - I implemented my changes to Part 1 and cleaned it up. The changes were there, I had the revised document.

I then opened up Part 2, implemented my changes, and cleaned it up. I assumed the same had happened, opened up the new version and copied and pasted it into the final file to be sent to the client, underneath Part 1.

I did the same with Parts 3, 4 and 5.

Then I printed off the final document, and finally checked over it once more. From this it transpired that the document contained the new versions of Parts 1, 3 and 5, and the old versions of Parts 2 and 4.

I inspected my bilingual files for parts 2 and 4, and compared them with the spare copies I had saved prior to clean-up. I had indeed made all the changes, but the new bilingual file, following clean-up, no longer contained them, and the cleaned-up version was the old version.

I have noticed this happening a number of times recently.

Astrid

How terribly complicated. Is this normal for you? And if you have a 10,000 words document do you really divide it up in twenty parts? And do you reassemble the final document without having layout problems? Every day? And if you made a mistake, do you remember in which part it was?
- This makes me think of when I bought my first fax machine, twenty years ago. The one sold by the French Post&Telecom store could only send one page at a time. Imagine, for 30 pages, recall the same number 30 times! (of course, I didn't buy this one)

Good luck.
NMR
Happy Wordfast user.


[Bijgewerkt op 2008-03-18 10:42]


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Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:08
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Certainly I work this way all the time Mar 18, 2008

NMR wrote:

Is this normal for you? And if you have a 10,000 words document do you really divide it up in twenty parts? And do you reassemble the final document without having layout problems? Every day? And if you made a mistake, do you remember in which part it was?
- This makes me think of when I bought my first fax machine, twenty years ago. The one sold by the French Post&Telecom store could only send one page at a time. Imagine, for 30 pages, recall the same number 30 times! (of course, I didn't buy this one)

Good luck.
NMR
Happy Wordfast user.


[Bijgewerkt op 2008-03-18 10:42]


Well, the most I have ever divided up a document into is 71 parts. No, I do not have layout problems afterwards because of the manner in which I carry out the dividing up, which means that layout problems cannot occur. Yes, I work like this every day.

Not sure what you mean by the mistake. I proofread each part separately, implement the changes, and clean it up a second time before adding it to the finished product, underneath the previous part.

As for the fax machine you describe, I had one like it, with thermal paper, until about 6 months ago.

Best regards,

Astrid


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Johnny Speiermann
Denmark
Local time: 05:08
English to Danish
+ ...
Use folders instead of BAK files Mar 19, 2008

Hi Astrid,

I haven't had this problem, but I never use BAK files.

Instead it is a good idea to have folder where you keep you bilingual files, and then copy them to a new folder before cleaning them.

A suggestion could be to deactive Allow fast saves in Word. In earlier versions this could mess up especially RTF files as this function does not save a full version of the document. Also deactivate automatic saving.

I don't know if there are still problems with these functions in newer versions, but there used to be.

It is true that Trados works faster with smaller documents, but I believe that dividing documents up in that small pieces would be time consuming. Consider using Normal view, deactive Background repagination, and choose to show placeholders for pictures. That will usually speed up things quite a lot.

Instead of saving as DOC you should consider saving in RTF format. Trados was originally developed to work with RTF files, and cleaning and other functions are a lot faster when using RTF format compared to DOC format. (You might also notice that Trados is converting DOC files before cleaning them).

I also noticed a bit difference when investing in a computer with a Dual Core processor. Trados and other CAT tools tend to use 100 % CPU resources, but when using a Dual Core processor it only uses one core leaving a lot of extra power for whatever other tasks the computer is doing.

But I'm very happy to hear that we are not the only souls left to proof read on paper

I hope that some of the above tips can help you.


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Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:08
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Re rtf and Word files Mar 19, 2008

Hi Johnny,

Thanks for your suggestions. You have brought up the topic of .doc and .rtf files. That is the only thing which could have varied when I cleaned up the five files and two gave me the old document after clean-up. By intent, I save all my files, when I create them as "Word 1997-2003 document" (my main client does not have Word 2007 yet, so cannot open Word 2007 files). However, always a couple of them end up being .rtf files instead.

By way of clarification, I very often get .pdfs from the lawyers - documents that they have received from elsewhere. I convert them using Abbyy Fine Reader and they are automatically converted into .rtf files. Sometimes I forget to re-save them with a .doc extension. It had not occurred to me that .rtf files may actually be better, or make Trados go faster, so that is very interesting.

My PC is around 10 months old and is a dual core with 2 GB RAM. However, I often work under high pressure, day and night, and then have to re-boot the computer to make it go faster again (in any case once every 12 hours or so, e.g. at 4 p.m. if I have had it switched on since 4 a.m. - or otherwise before I start on a new project). I think a lot of my problems could be caused by the extra heavy usage.

I prefer to divide documents up, because a lot of them are very big. If I work with a very large document (50 or 100 pages), as I did in the past, things tend to happen when I have finally finished translating the whole marathon document, such as the document refusing to clean up, or the computer crashing and having to start translating again from the middle... all kinds of things can happen (and have happened in the past). Perhaps 500-word segments is a bit excessive, but 2,000-word documents would certainly be an insurance against problems of that kind. I chopped a 36,000-word document into 71 smaller documents, and maybe 18 would have done. There is also the factor of not being able to time progress on a very large document, and being able to count in advance the hours the project will take, or how many hours are left to do, with smaller documents.

Yes, I think I will take up your suggestion of keeping bilingual files in a separate folder. That will obviously help to increase organisation.

As for pictures, I remove them all into a separate file before I start, and put them all back again afterwards.

Thanks, and have a nice day!

Astrid


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Johnny Speiermann
Denmark
Local time: 05:08
English to Danish
+ ...
Computer issues Mar 19, 2008

Hi Astrid,

Sounds lik a lot of computer issues you have there.

Another issue you might want to check is if there are "invisible" instances of Word running. Word doesn't always close properly (especially if started by TagEditor when running a spell check). Press Ctrl+Alt+Delete to get the task list, and check under Processes if winword.exe is running for no apparent reason (i.e. exit Word first). There will often be an instance of Word using 50 % CPU resources, so if you kill that resource it will help a lot.

You shouldn't have to restart the computer that often, but I think there is a lot of memory related issues in Trados. When using for example Translate to Fuzzy in larger documents it doesn't clear the memory properly which makes it really slow after a short while.

And if you are working on documents with many tables Trados is also slow.


I usually reinstall our computers every 6 months, but that is mainly because we localize software and therefore often have to install beta software which really can mess up things when installing and unstalling. So every so often we have "new" computer that run smoothly. I am just about to test using virtualization, so that I can setup a "new computer" for every large project as this will make it easy to clean up afterwards without having to reinstall everything.

We are currently working on a 56,000 words project, and we have split the file up into 8 smaller files. The largest being 16,000 words does take a bit more juice than the others, so it definately helps splitting up large files.

But to keep track of the status for each file I just run a new analysis.

And don't work 12 hours at a time. Take a break


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Anette Herbert  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:08
English to Swedish
+ ...
Registry cleaner Mar 30, 2008

Astrid Elke Johnson wrote:

My PC is around 10 months old and is a dual core with 2 GB RAM. However, I often work under high pressure, day and night, and then have to re-boot the computer to make it go faster again (in any case once every 12 hours or so, e.g. at 4 p.m. if I have had it switched on since 4 a.m. - or otherwise before I start on a new project). I think a lot of my problems could be caused by the extra heavy usage.
]

Hi Astrid,

I happened upon this thread and I have read it with interest. Maybe you already have some type of registry cleaner but if note I would really recommend one. I use to have the kind of problems you describe but very seldom now. I use a program called Registry Mechanic but there are others, some say even better ones although I am very please with reg mech. When you run a lot of processes, and especially at crashes the computer's registry gets very clogged, even if you reboot and then causes all sorts of problem. Check it out if you haven't already done so. Good luck!

Anette


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