ProZ.com rules ("administrative actions should not be discussed in the forums") vs. ProZ.com scope
Thread poster: Rad Graban

Rad Graban  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:29
English to Slovak
+ ...
Aug 9, 2009

So, we have the rule:
ProZ.com's forums are limited in scope to the purposes of a translation workplace, ie. solving translation and translation-related problems together. In light of this, in general, administrative actions should not be discussed in the forums.


and then we have the 'scope':
Topic areas within ProZ.com's scope

Content posted on or via ProZ.com should be limited to the following areas:
· language services (translation, interpreting, etc.)
· language services business issues
· general business issues pertinent to site users
· language
· the ProZ.com site
· the ProZ.com community


Is the discussion of administrative actions within ProZ.com's scope, or is it not? From points 5 & 6, I would believe it is, and with ProZ.com being the largest portal for language professionals on the web, I would think that these actions can be classified as a business issue and thus these discussions meet criteria of point 3.


 

Henry Dotterer
Local time: 01:29
SITE FOUNDER
Right - administrative actions should not be discussed in the forums Aug 9, 2009

"Administrative actions should not be discussed in the forums," is right. If you disagree with a certain administrative action, or just want clarification, entering a support ticket is the way.

This a practical matter, helping to keep order. It allows people to continue using the forums for their intended purpose, which is cooperating to solve translation-related problems, sharing translation-related information, etc. -- as defined in the scope document that you reference.

This policy is important also because it allows moderators to carry out their roles without excessive distraction. (The role of moderator is akin to the role of the referee in sports. If there were no limits on the ways that a referee's calls could be questioned, no one would ever be a referee.)

I hope you understand!


 

Ansgar Knirim  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 07:29
Member (2007)
English to German
+ ...
Open discourse Aug 9, 2009

Henry D wrote:

"Administrative actions should not be discussed in the forums," is right. If you disagree with a certain administrative action, or just want clarification, entering a support ticket is the way.

This a practical matter, helping to keep order. It allows people to continue using the forums for their intended purpose, which is cooperating to solve translation-related problems, sharing translation-related information, etc


It definitely helps keeping "order", but also prevents an open discourse - disabling an exchange of views about site policies among (paying) members and making it a one-way conversation by admitting support tickets as the one and only way of communication.


 

Henry Dotterer
Local time: 01:29
SITE FOUNDER
The support system is a more efficient way to carry on the exchange Aug 9, 2009

Ansgar Knirim wrote:

Henry D wrote:

"Administrative actions should not be discussed in the forums," is right. If you disagree with a certain administrative action, or just want clarification, entering a support ticket is the way.

This a practical matter, helping to keep order. It allows people to continue using the forums for their intended purpose, which is cooperating to solve translation-related problems, sharing translation-related information, etc


It definitely helps keeping "order", but also prevents an open discourse - disabling an exchange of views about site policies among (paying) members and making it a one-way conversation by admitting support tickets as the one and only way of communication.

It is still a 2-way conversation, in fact feedback on admin action that is submitted via support tickets is far more likely to result in changes and improvements than public discussions (which often have associated negative impacts on moderators and members, which must be addressed in parallel, and in that sense distract from attention that might otherwise be directed at improvements.)

I hope you can understand.


 

Niraja Nanjundan (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 11:59
German to English
My personal opinion Aug 10, 2009

If there were an administrative action against me, personally, I would prefer to discuss it discreetly with staff and not openly in the forum. I don't think I would want the whole world to know about it and discuss it.

What I would like to see on a *translators' website* is 300+ people discussing topics in the translation theory and practice forum, proofreading and editing, linguistic diversity, literature and poetry, all the CAT tools forums etc., etc. I understand that people have to let off steam and express their views when they don't agree with actions taken by staff or anything else of that nature, but why is it that we only get these long discussions when people want to moan and complain about something?

But, please, as I said above, that's just my personal point of view.


 

Henry Dotterer
Local time: 01:29
SITE FOUNDER
Right, Niraja. Aug 10, 2009

Niraja Nanjundan wrote:
What I would like to see on a *translators' website* is 300+ people discussing topics in the translation theory and practice forum, proofreading and editing, linguistic diversity, literature and poetry, all the CAT tools forums etc., etc.

Exactly, Niraja, thanks for making this point.

In fact, this is what most ProZ.com members want. The system of rules can only be understood fully when this is understood.


 

David Russi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:29
English to Spanish
+ ...
Interesting assertion, Henry, but how do we know this? Aug 10, 2009

[quote]Henry D wrote:

In fact, this is what most ProZ.com members want. The system of rules can only be understood fully when this is understood.


Interesting assertion, Henry, but how do we know this? I, for one, think open, but civil, discourse is a good thing, because it keeps everyone honest and prevents things from happening behind the scenes, which is not always a good thing.

Painting everything rosy is nice, but it is not real.


 

Steven Capsuto  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:29
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Really Aug 10, 2009

Henry D wrote:
In fact, this is what most ProZ.com members want. The system of rules can only be understood fully when this is understood.


Really? Was there a survey that I missed?


 

Marijke Singer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:29
Member
Dutch to English
+ ...
Complaining is healthy Aug 10, 2009

Niraja Nanjundan wrote:

I understand that people have to let off steam and express their views when they don't agree with actions taken by staff or anything else of that nature, but why is it that we only get these long discussions when people want to moan and complain about something?

But, please, as I said above, that's just my personal point of view.


Because they actually do have something to complain about or have been treated unfairly.

Complaining in a constructive way with sound arguments is healthy and will ultimately lead to a better service. If it is out in the open, you will have transparency and this is healthy too.


 

Shouguang Cao
China
Local time: 14:29
English to Chinese
+ ...
Let's do it. Aug 10, 2009

Steven Capsuto wrote:

Henry D wrote:
In fact, this is what most ProZ.com members want. The system of rules can only be understood fully when this is understood.


Really? Was there a survey that I missed?


Let's have a quick poll on the front page to find out!

[Edited at 2009-08-10 06:13 GMT]


 

Maciek Drobka  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 07:29
Member (2006)
English to Polish
+ ...
Grounds for this assertion? Aug 10, 2009

Henry D wrote:

In fact, this is what most ProZ.com members want. The system of rules can only be understood fully when this is understood.


As part of what I am made to believe is a minority of users who would want otherwise in a number of cases, I would be grateful if you disclosed the grounds for this assertion. Othwerwise, I am all for at least a quick poll as suggested by Dallas Cao.

Maciek


 

Henry Dotterer
Local time: 01:29
SITE FOUNDER
The policy will remain: "administrative actions should not be discussed in the forums" Aug 10, 2009

My comment may have been misunderstood. Let me restate it: I am certain, based on feedback I have received over the years from site users, that most people would prefer to see discussions relating to their work (ie. the type that would appear "in the translation theory and practice forum, proofreading and editing, linguistic diversity, literature and poetry, all the CAT tools forums etc., etc.), over those relating to specific rules enforcement actions. Basically, people don't like bickering!

Anyway, in the end, the discussion is moot. For better or for worse, the policy at ProZ.com is and will be: "administrative actions should not be discussed in the forums". (We are listening, but it is via the support system -- as those of you who use the support system know.)

I am closing the thread.


 


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