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Vetting of paying members' posts - what is the mechanism?
Thread poster: Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI

Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 04:15
Member (2008)
English to Czech
Apr 21, 2011

A non-specific question (not related to my profile, my access is fine and I know that would have to be sorted out via a support ticket anyway) - perhaps there's a better forum for this, but:

In general, on what grounds would vetting of forum posts (or imposibility to send e-mails, or other site features limitations) of paying members take place?

I understand that the "enforcement" part under the rules (or is it actually a non-numbered part of rules?) can cover many situations and "solutions", but as far as I know their application against "bad users" is not explained to them, nor are the reasons provided or the scope specified, until these eventually ask via a support ticket.

To elaborate a bit:
1) Is there some pattern that is used to apply this or this restriction etc., or is it rather a random decision of staff members?
2) If a pattern, can it be indicated?
3) Are the restrictions decided by one moderator, or in a team?
4) If "bad users" don't know about the restrictions themselves (until they try out), is that intentional, or is technically possible to automatically inform them about the reasons for and scope of the restrictions?

Thanks.


 

Lucia Leszinsky
SITE STAFF
General approach to rules enforcement Apr 21, 2011

Dear Tomas,

The general approach to rules enforcement is described at http://www.proz.com/?sp=moderators and at http://www.proz.com/rules/

Additionally, access to networking features, which potentially affect other members, may be modified or revoked at the discretion of the ProZ.com team regardless of membership status.

Lucía


 

Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:15
English to German
+ ...
Heheeee!!! :-) Apr 21, 2011

Lucia Leszinsky wrote:
The general approach to rules enforcement is described at http://www.proz.com/?sp=moderators



Who on earth is your marketing consultant?

Fire him/her/them. And get your money back.

Everyone with the slightest clue of sports knows that referees are the sneakiest and most biased creatures on this planet, only interested in their home team and their own homestead.

Among all key-visuals and visual metaphors, the sports referee was chosen, unbelievable.

This explains a lot.icon_smile.gificon_smile.gificon_smile.gificon_smile.gif


 
Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Empty post.

Jared Tabor
Local time: 23:15
SITE STAFF
Let's keep this on topic and respectful Apr 21, 2011

Hi all,

No marketing consultant was used in setting up and presenting a program which has served the site and its community well, and which represents a group of past and present volunteers from around the world who work hard at what they do and have my respect, for one, for doing so. Regardless of the various connotations one may choose to take away from the image/presentation, the content of the explanation of the program should be taken at face value. This is of course off topic, if I read correctly the questions Tomas has put forward. Let's focus on that and keep the discussion respectful. Thanks.

Jared


 

Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:15
English to German
+ ...
This might be the problem. Apr 21, 2011

This has nothing to do with any lack of respect. At least not for the ProZ.com team. But maybe the other way around?

Jared wrote:
No marketing consultant was used in setting up and presenting a program which has served the site and its community well, and which represents a group of past and present volunteers from around the world who work hard at what they do and have my respect, for one, for doing so.


We, the professional translators on this portal are dedicated to the highest standards of professionalism. We expect the same standards in terms of training of all the wonderful people who volunteer and who are willing to donate their time to serve as moderators, designers, copywriters and such.

Which requires a lot of psychology and expertise. Handing out whistles and a title is not sufficient. We request - if I may use this as an example - the same professionalism when it comes to training and priming the "administrative staff" that at times is deleting posts like they were using a garden rake.

Your workforce does not stop here. You have recruited volunteer translators and they did a fantastic job. But you never realized that you have a greater workforce at hand. Marketing people, copywriters, designers, art directors, consultants, psychologists, teachers, etc...

Make use of us.

Greetings! icon_smile.gif


 

Jared Tabor
Local time: 23:15
SITE STAFF
Hi Nicole Apr 21, 2011

Hi there Nicole,

Let me say that I always look forward to reading your insightful posts on the forums here.

Nicole Schnell wrote:
...

Which requires a lot of psychology and expertise. Handing out whistles and a title is not sufficient. We request - if I may use this as an example - the same professionalism when it comes to training and priming the "administrative staff" that at times is deleting posts like they were using a garden rake.



I would object to the "handing out whistles and a title" and the "deleting posts like they were using a garden rake", which I can assure you is not the case in either instance. I understand that there may be a difference in perception on the surface, and a negative impression can go a lot further than the positive impression, or the neutral impression that can come when everything is working well and one does not even realize that something is there, doing what it is designed to.

The rest of your post makes very good sense to me, and got me thinking, so thank you for replying!

Jared


 

Susanna Garcia  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:15
Italian to English
+ ...
Hurt feelings - off topic as usual Apr 22, 2011

[quote]Jared wrote:

Hi there Nicole,

Let me say that I always look forward to reading your insightful posts on the forums here.

===================================

Jared, I'm truly hurt you never said that about my Kudoz postings!

Nicole, I think you're so right - but while we're talking tools, perhaps sledgehammer to crack a nut could join your rake's progress.

Suzi


 

Cilian O'Tuama  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:15
German to English
+ ...
"deleting posts like they were using a garden rake" Apr 22, 2011

Hey everyone, I'm surprised (and glad) this discussion is taking place.

In the past, when people addressed "site censorship", their posts were often hidden by Jared et al., and they were asked to submit a support ticket. That means one member versus ProZ. Doomed to failure.

Nice to see the site re-opening the doors for public discussion about what members want/expect...

Cilian


 

Mark Hamlen  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 04:15
French to English
+ ...
Not sure this is the right place, but Apr 22, 2011

I'm concerned not only about vetting posts, but that posts are all listed publicly in Google searches. I recently did a Google search of my own name and saw every post I had made to Proz forums was near the top of the results list. This is a private forum, yet every word I post here is referenced on public search engines.

Since clients are apt to use Google to find me, I will hesitate from now on to post to Proz forums concerning anything to do with the business.... Do these forums have to be referenced to search engines?


 

Marie-Hélène Hayles  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:15
Italian to English
+ ...
This is not and has never been a private forum Apr 22, 2011

Mark Hamlen wrote:

I'm concerned not only about vetting posts, but that posts are all listed publicly in Google searches. I recently did a Google search of my own name and saw every post I had made to Proz forums was near the top of the results list. This is a private forum, yet every word I post here is referenced on public search engines.

Since clients are apt to use Google to find me, I will hesitate from now on to post to Proz forums concerning anything to do with the business.... Do these forums have to be referenced to search engines?


It's always been public - and for that reason, we would all be advised to be circumspect in what we do and do not post.


 

Marie-Hélène Hayles  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:15
Italian to English
+ ...
Actually... Apr 22, 2011

I've just had a look at the FAQs, and they certainly give the impression that the forums are private!

http://www.proz.com/faq/forums.html#are_forums_indexed_by_search_engines_

We recommend that anyone using the Internet assume that anything they post online will be viewable by all people for the rest of time. That said, unless we have missed something, in order for a search engine to index content posted to a private forum, it would either have to be logged in as one of the group's members, or otherwise bypass the authentication procedure. So it is relatively unlikely that content posted to private forums will be indexed by search engines.

And yet (as is obvious from my above post) I've always thought they were public... and a simple google of my surname plus a key word I know I have recently used in the forums produces this result: http://www.google.com/search?q=hayles%20commercialista&hl=en&sourceid=gd&rlz=1D1GGLD_en-GBIT319

So in fact they are public, and that FAQ is misleading, to say the least.


 

Jared Tabor
Local time: 23:15
SITE STAFF
Public vs. private forums Apr 22, 2011

The FAQ you mention, Marie-Hélène, is a bit confusing, but refers with "private forum" to the private forums members may request be created, for use in teams or smaller networking groups, which are not accessible to anyone who has not specifically been granted access.

General ProZ.com forums (like this one) are public, and are indexed by search engines. I'll update the FAQ to make it clearer. Thanks!


 

Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 04:15
Member (2008)
English to Czech
TOPIC STARTER
well Apr 22, 2011

So in fact they are public, and that FAQ is misleading, to say the least.

But doesn't that "private" reference mean only such forums that are really private (only for members of the user group in question), as for example forums of various translators' teams, or moderator's forum?

Or in other words, private forums would be only these?
http://www.proz.com/forum/categories/private_forums-priv.html

Tomas

[Edited at 2011-04-22 11:35 GMT]


 

Marie-Hélène Hayles  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:15
Italian to English
+ ...
Thanks Jared Apr 22, 2011

It certainly needs clarification!icon_smile.gif

Edited: Tomas, as Jared explained, you are obviously absolutely right - but it's certainly not clear from the FAQ (even to me, and I am a member of a couple of private forums on Proz - some people may not even be aware that there even are such forums.)

[Edited at 2011-04-22 11:37 GMT]


 
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Vetting of paying members' posts - what is the mechanism?

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