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Locked forum posts not shown in "Most recent posts" list (staff: 'now they are')
Thread poster: Natasha Ziada

Natasha Ziada  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 09:28
English to Dutch
+ ...
May 16

https://www.proz.com/forum/site_forums/334723-goal_build_a_more_friendly_discussion_environment_here_anyone_in.html

This thread is one of many started and closed recently, that are subsequently nowhere to be found.

Quoting from Henry's last post:

"With that, I'm closing out this thread, which after all was a simple call for a friendly tone here in our forums. Do with it what you will!"

And how exactly are people supposed to do with it what they will (i.e. head its message, I presume) if there is no way to access the thread, even as a read-only? What was the point of starting this conversation, only to shut it down after a day and sending it into oblivion? Surely that will hardly bring about the desired cultural change.

In general I find this trend of disappearing forum posts - active ones - quite baffling and frustrating. Why would people take the trouble of contributing if discussions can be taken off-air at any time?

ETA: I've now found the missing/locked threads at this location: https://www.proz.com/forum/site_forums-52.html. They seem to disappear from the forum landing page - Most recent posts (https://www.proz.com/forum), which is where I follow current discussions.

[Edited at 2019-05-16 03:10 GMT]

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2019-05-16 12:34 GMT]

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2019-05-18 23:16 GMT]


Amel Abdullah
Mirko Mainardi
IT>EN Legal
ahartje
Rob Grayson
Sandra& Kenneth
Melanie Meyer
 

Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:28
Member (2006)
English to German
+ ...
Notice or link would be great May 16

I commented seconds before the thread was closed.
Can we get some sort of notice that a thread is about to close and is there a separate closed-thread forum area where one can view these threads and can be directed to from where the thread used to be, at least for a while?
Thank you.
Bernhard


Natasha Ziada
Vanda Nissen
Mirko Mainardi
ahartje
 

Jean Dimitriadis  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 01:28
Member
English to French
+ ...
Disappearing threads May 16

Hello Natasha,

I have recently opened a similar topic (title: Locked threads disappear from the "Recent Translation forum posts" page), which, incidentally, was hidden as well.

I'm linking two Jared's replies that may provide some explanation, at least from a ProZ staff perspective:

https://www.proz.com/forum/site_forums/334168-locked_threads_disappear_from_the_"recent_translation_forum_posts"_page-page2.html#2791423

https://www.proz.com/forum/site_forums/334168-locked_threads_disappear_from_the_"recent_translation_forum_posts"_page-page3.html#2791910

I won't comment personally, though, as it is beyond my interest anymore. Just wanted to link relevant answers already provided by the site staff.

Jean


 

Natasha Ziada  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 09:28
English to Dutch
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
@ Jean May 16

Thanks for the links; I did find them once I had unlocked the vault of undesirable threads

Everything has already been said (which I didn't know, as those threads weren't immediately visible), which makes my post sort of redundant. The only thing that puzzles me is why a post by Henry asking participants to adhere to a certain etiquette on the forums would be deemed 'not prime real estate'? As far as I could tell the discussion was civilised and on point.

But I'm with you, it's not really worth making a fuss about, as this is apparently the accepted status quo.


 

Jean Dimitriadis  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 01:28
Member
English to French
+ ...
Yes May 16

Well, what is business as usual for some might be questionable practices for others.

At least, it does raise a few questions, as these threads show.

To me, the situation doesn't foster participation, so I will leave it at that.


Natasha Ziada
Sandra& Kenneth
 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 01:28
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Natasha and @Jean May 16

Natasha Ziada wrote:
https://www.proz.com/forum/site_forums/334723-goal_build_a_more_friendly_discussion_environment_here_anyone_in.html

The [build_a_more_friendly_discussion_environment_here] thread is one of many ... that are subsequently nowhere to be found.


[As you have since discovered, the thread is still in its original location, in Forums about ProZ.com » Site Forums. It is simply no longer in either of the the lists of recommended threads.]

Posts have always been removed from the "recents" list and from the home page if they were determined by the moderators/staff to be non-contributing to either new users' potential decision to join ProZ.com or current users' potential willingness to start using the forums. There is nothing sinister about removing discouraging content from places that are meant to give encouragement.

In general, I find this trend of disappearing forum posts - active ones - quite baffling and frustrating.


I, too, dislike it when posts disappear without a trace. I prefer that readers of a thread can see, at least, that a post had been hidden (i.e. replaced with a grey bar stating why the post was removed, e.g. which forum rule was broken). I would also prefer it if the poster has the option of having their name shown in the deletion notice.

However, I don't see anything wrong with locking an "active thread" if the thread is e.g. no longer useful or shows no sign of rehabilitation after degeneration or has served its original purpose sufficiently, etc. In particular, when staff members post a question to ask for input, they often lock the thread once they've received a couple of replies. I don't believe that any thread where people might potentially still want to say something, or respond to something valid that someone else had said, should necessarily remain open.

Why would people take the trouble of contributing if discussions can be taken off-air at any time?


In cases other than technical assistance, we contribute to threads not because we hope that the conversation will go on forever, but because we want to share our current ideas with the thread's current participants and the original poster.

Jean Dimitriadis wrote:
I have recently opened a similar topic (title: Locked threads disappear from the "Recent Translation forum posts" page), which, incidentally, was hidden as well.


Do you mean this one?
https://www.proz.com/forum/site_forums/334168.html
Do you know roughly for how long it was hidden before it became unhidden again?

[Edited at 2019-05-16 06:29 GMT]


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 01:28
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Sadly, there is no global forum home page May 16

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Is there a separate [forum area for closed threads] where one can view these threads and can be directed to from where the thread used to be?


In 99.9% of cases, when a thread is locked, the thread remains in its original location. It does not disappear. It may be removed from shortcut lists (e.g. the "recent" list and the home page), but it doesn't disappear from its original location. (It may disappear from the place where you last saw it, if the place where you last saw it is just a quick access list instead of the specific forum's or subforum's actual home page.)

In the thread that Jean links to, someone said:
In sum, removed threads, even if they have not been locked, are inaccessible through either of these lists, and can only be accessed in the most roundabout of ways by anyone wishing to visit them.

It is unfortunate that the ProZ.com forums do not have a global forum home page that shows all forums and all subforums in one location. The URL www.proz.com/forum does not take you to a global forum home page but merely to a list of some of the most recent posts. There is no single page anywhere at ProZ.com that shows all the forums. There are pages that contain only all the "Art & business" forums and subforums, all the "Technical" forums and subforums, all the "Non-English" and all the "Country-specific" forums and subforums, and all the "site related" forums and subforums, but no page that form the starting point for navigating to all the forums or all the forums and their subforums.

It would have made more sense, and lead to fewer misunderstanding, and encouraged more intelligent forum participation, in my opinion, if www.proz.com/forum took people to a page that lists all the forums and subforums, and www.proz.com/forum/recent took people to a list of recent posts.

It is unfortunate that navigating to threads via forum and subforum home pages are deemed one of the "most roundabout of ways" to visit them. It should be the most straight-forward way.

[Edited at 2019-05-16 07:23 GMT]


Natasha Ziada
 

Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 01:28
Member (2018)
French to English
. May 16

tbf Henry did first thank everyone for their input before closing the thread. Basically I think he got the answers he was looking for. He also thanked those who wrote to him privately which points anyone who still wants to contribute to a possible way of continuing the discussion.
The problem is therefore not necessarily that the thread was closed, but that the thread then disappeared. If it weren't for the link to the thread here I would never have found it.


 

Jean Dimitriadis  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 01:28
Member
English to French
+ ...
More precisely May 16

When I said the topic was hidden, I meant that the thread "Locked threads disappear from the Recent Translation forum posts page" was removed from the recent Translation forum posts page. It was not hidden entirely, but hidden in effect: unless one is already following that category or post, they need to check individually inside 100+ forum categories for potential recent threads.

In the Recent Translation forum posts page, I expect to see exactly that. If a specific post is out of bounds, it can be hidden by a moderator, but I don't find it appropriate that the editorial control is extended to whole threads in the recent translation forum posts.

[Edited at 2019-05-16 07:23 GMT]


Natasha Ziada
Mirko Mainardi
Katalin Szilárd
Christel Zipfel
Sandra& Kenneth
Jan Truper
Robert Forstag
 

Henry Dotterer
Local time: 19:28
SITE FOUNDER
Should locked threads appear among "Most Recent Posts"? May 16

Hi folks,

Is the preference that locked threads continue to appear among "Most Recent Posts"? We could do that.

I'm not willing to have them appear on the home page. Considering the interests of the typical visitor to the ProZ.com home page, I don't think listing closed topics is a good use of that space.


Evelio Clavel
 

Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
Yes, please! May 16

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Hi folks,

Is the preference that locked threads continue to appear among "Most Recent Posts"? We could do that.



It's simply frustrating and very irritating when a thread that you have followed until the day before suddenly has disappeared and you don't know what happened. With the solution you suggest we would at least know where to look for it.

Thank you very much for implementing this soon!


Jan Truper
Giuliana Buscaglione
Kay Denney
Mirko Mainardi
Melanie Meyer
Natasha Ziada
Darius Sciuka
 

Jan Truper  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 01:28
English to German
+ ...
... May 16

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Hi folks,

Is the preference that locked threads continue to appear among "Most Recent Posts"?


Absolutely.

May I also suggest adding a note on the preference page for the homepage forums (https://www.proz.com/dashboard/forum/?sp_forum_mode=homepage_forums) stating something along the lines of:
"Notwithstanding the settings made here, locked threads won't appear on the homepage, but can be found under Most Recent Posts."

Thank you.


Angie Garbarino
 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 01:28
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Have some way to access all recent threads or posts May 16

Henry Dotterer wrote:
Is the preference that locked threads continue to appear among "Most Recent Posts"? We could do that.


It's not only locked threads that get left out of the "recent" list. This very thread is no longer on the "recent" list, even though it is not locked. I understand that not all recent threads appear on the "recent" list, for various reasons, but the fact is that many users use the "recent" list as their access point to the forums and experience it as a loss if a thread that used to be there is no longer there.

I don't necessarily think keeping locked threads on the "recent" list is a good idea, because www.proz.com/forum is a public page. Nor will it solve the feelings of censorship, because not all threads that get removed from the "recent" list are locked.

Instead, can't you create two pages that are accessible only to logged in users, namely www.proz.com/forum/posts (which lists the most recent 50 or 100 posts, newest at the top) and www.proz.com/forum/topics (which lists the most recently replied-to 20 or 50 threads, newest at the top)?

Samuel


Natasha Ziada
Bernhard Sulzer
 

Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 01:28
Member
English to Italian
Not just locked threads May 16

Christel Zipfel wrote:

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Hi folks,

Is the preference that locked threads continue to appear among "Most Recent Posts"? We could do that.



It's simply frustrating and very irritating when a thread that you have followed until the day before suddenly has disappeared and you don't know what happened. With the solution you suggest we would at least know where to look for it.

Thank you very much for implementing this soon!


Indeed, although this is actually more relevant for threads that are removed from the "most recent" list without being locked. In the end, locked threads are dead in the water and would soon become "not recent" anyway simply because no one can post anymore in them, so yes, while it would be nice not to have them suddenly disappear from sight, the same is even more true and relevant for discussions that are still open, but which quickly die away mainly because no one is basically able to find them anymore or just know of their existence in the first place...

I'm not sure how many people use the homepage vs. the "most recent posts" section to track recent posts, so thread visibility would be negatively affected anyway, I guess. But better this than nothing...


Natasha Ziada
 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:28
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
@Henry - This is precisely what was discussed a few weeks ago May 16

I am not sure whether this link would work, but if not, it is in this same area (Site forums), the title is "Locked threads disappear from the "Recent Translation forum posts" page, started by Jean Dimitriadis on April 17.

https://www.proz.com/forum/site_forums/334168-locked_threads_disappear_from_the_"recent_translation_forum_posts"_page.html

Here we discussed at length the problem of not having a way to find recent threads (regardless of whether they are locked or not) that were moved off from the "Most Recent Posts" lists.


Natasha Ziada
Barbara Carrara
 
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