Posts should not be deleted without consulting with poster. Thread poster: Malik Beytek (X)
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Malik Beytek (X)
Local time: 05:30
My post, yet unapproved, was deleted once without consulting with me at all and this had a discouraging effect on me. (This happened only once. In all other instances, we discussed and I either revised the post or agreed that it should be deleted.)
I propose that a post not yet approved, therefore not visible to viewers except poster and mods, should not be deleted before reasonable discussion with poster.
Exception to this could be "new users".
And per... See more My post, yet unapproved, was deleted once without consulting with me at all and this had a discouraging effect on me. (This happened only once. In all other instances, we discussed and I either revised the post or agreed that it should be deleted.)
I propose that a post not yet approved, therefore not visible to viewers except poster and mods, should not be deleted before reasonable discussion with poster.
Exception to this could be "new users".
And perhaps one could be *demoted* to "new user" status for misusing forums.
Please note that I post only to open a topic; I don't post interim -- starting now. Please feel free to contact me via IM or e-mail. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Magda Dziadosz 
Poland
Local time: 04:30
Member (2004)
English to Polish
+ ...
| How forum moderation works | Feb 13, 2007 |
Hi Malik,
This is just a brief explanation how the forum moderation works here. Moderator review posts only to check if they are not breaking forum rules. The rules are public and every poster (by posting to the forum) agrees to follow them. In case if a post is against the rules, we have a choice of the following actions:
* contacting site users to call attention to specific rules
* refraining from approving (or removing/hiding) postings that violate a rule
* causing a m... See more Hi Malik,
This is just a brief explanation how the forum moderation works here. Moderator review posts only to check if they are not breaking forum rules. The rules are public and every poster (by posting to the forum) agrees to follow them. In case if a post is against the rules, we have a choice of the following actions:
* contacting site users to call attention to specific rules
* refraining from approving (or removing/hiding) postings that violate a rule
* causing a message related to the rules to appear to certain users when they undertake certain actions
* suspending, temporarily or permanently, access to site features that have been used in violation of the rules.
* termination of profile or membership (staff only)
In general, if the post is completely off-rules - we delete it, if only a small part of it is unacceptable - we ask to edit that part. In every case the poster receives the message with the link to relevant forum rule. In no case there is "discussion" or "consulting" the poster about the rules.
Malik Yenigelen wrote:
I propose that a post not yet approved, therefore not visible to viewers except poster and mods, should not be deleted before reasonable discussion with poster.
As you can see from the above - there is no room for discussion. The rules are there for everybody and everybody are expected to follow them. A poster whose post was not approved is not expected to reply or discuss it - he or she is only expected to re-read the rules.
Exception to this could be "new users".
Actually, new users are usually treated a bit different in the sense that we tend to send them more detailed explanation of rules - we understand that new users might not be completely familiar with them yet. This might be a reason why you feel you have been "consulted" previously, but not anymore. As you're not a new user anymore, you are expected to know the forum rules very well.
And perhaps one could be *demoted* to "new user" status for misusing forums.
No. New user is someone who only recently joined ProZ.com fora. This label is used so everybody can welcome him/her and provide some guidance, where necessary. Moderators have tools for misusers (see above).
Please note that I post only to open a topic; I don't post interim -- starting now. Please feel free to contact me via IM or e-mail.
The last part of your message is not clear to me.
Nevertheless, I hope you won't feel discouraged anymore.
Best,
Magda
PS The rules and moderators' actions are described here:
http://www.proz.com/forumrules ▲ Collapse
| | | | Andy Watkinson
Spain
Local time: 04:30
Member
Catalan to English
+ ...
Magda Dziadosz wrote:
A poster whose post was not approved is not expected to reply or discuss it - he or she is only expected to re-read the rules.
Magda,
I find the sentence above rather..... chilling.
Maybe it's just me.
Andy.
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Pablo Martínez (X)
Spain
Local time: 04:30
English to Spanish
| Agree with Andy | Feb 14, 2007 |
I sympathize with your views, Andy.
I always had the feeling -and I can now say it is not only me-that the site is ruled in a very strict way when it comes to freedom of speech.
I feel like in a military camp, ha, ha.
I hope they allow us to smile, at least...
Just take easy
| | | | Ralf Lemster
Germany
Local time: 04:30
English to German
+ ...
| Please read the ProZ.com scope, and the site rules | Feb 14, 2007 |
Good morning all,
On a general note, this was discussed at length last year, when the rules applicable to the ProZ.com forums were re-worded and re-published.
ProZ.com is a meeting place for thousands of people from the most diverse of backgrounds. The foundation on which the site rules are based is the ProZ.com scope.
To give you an example of how forum moderation works... See more Good morning all,
On a general note, this was discussed at length last year, when the rules applicable to the ProZ.com forums were re-worded and re-published.
ProZ.com is a meeting place for thousands of people from the most diverse of backgrounds. The foundation on which the site rules are based is the ProZ.com scope.
To give you an example of how forum moderation works in practice, some people try to discuss specific outsourcers in the forum (which is not permitted under forum rule no. 8). Such posts are not vetted (or hidden if they didn't require vetting). To explain why a posting was not vetted or hidden, forum moderators have a set of standard messages at their disposal. In more difficult cases (or in the case of new site users), forum mods regularly send an additional message to the poster. This doesn't mean, however, that we discuss the rule, which is applied (and, of necessary, enforced) in the same way to everyone.
Best regards,
Ralf ▲ Collapse
| | | | Magda Dziadosz
Poland
Local time: 04:30
Member (2004)
English to Polish
+ ...
| Chilling - well, yes | Feb 14, 2007 |
Andy Watkinson wrote: Magda Dziadosz wrote:
A poster whose post was not approved is not expected to reply or discuss it - he or she is only expected to re-read the rules.
Magda, I find the sentence above rather..... chilling. Maybe it's just me. Andy.
Hi Andy and all who feel chilled
Let's not forget that we are talking here about breaking defined and published rules. Rules, which are designed to help all of us to have a meanigful and interesting fora, can we agree on that?
Now, example: how often do you see at ProZ.com forums posts like: CHECK THIS OUT!!! New online casino! (or viagra, or save your soul, or... whatever). If you don't see it, it's only because there is a team of moderators who enforce the rules. Now, do you think it is advisable and practical to enter into discussion and seek the poster's consent to delete such post? Enter into lenghty discussions via e-mail and messanger with each and every poster who feels that his/her case is exceptional? This applies to all rules and all posters, this site is very large and have enormous daily traffic - yet, most forum posts are vetted within minutes. Please take this into consideration as well.
Ah, and one more thing - enormous daily traffic It's a fact, so I guess the "military camp" here is not that bad and actually attracts thousands of translators daily
Happy translating, everyone.
Magda
| | | | | ProZ.com forum policy and rules | Feb 14, 2007 |
I have little to add to what Magda and Ralf have already said.
ProZ.com rules are clear and they are in public view at http://www.proz.com/siterules and whenever you are ready to post in the forums you see the message "By posting, you accept the forum rules of etiquette" that includes a link to the Forum section of the rules.
When a post is not in line with site rules, moderators o... See more I have little to add to what Magda and Ralf have already said.
ProZ.com rules are clear and they are in public view at http://www.proz.com/siterules and whenever you are ready to post in the forums you see the message "By posting, you accept the forum rules of etiquette" that includes a link to the Forum section of the rules.
When a post is not in line with site rules, moderators or staff will apply some of the actions described under Enforcement in the rules page and quoted by Magda.
In particular a poster may be asked to edit a post, or the post may be made invisible. Poster is notified about this action by means of a boilerplate or a personal message.
As Magda clearly says, the approval of a post is not an issue subject to negotiation or discussion, as the moderator in charge of the issue has to enforce the relevant rules (independently of his/her personal opinion about the issue being discussed).
In case of disagreement with the moderator's actions the poster can of course open a support ticket and address the issue to site staff.
The article Sixteen (16) cornerstones of ProZ.com describes the principles upon which this and other site policies have been created.
Regards,
Enrique Cavalitto
Community manager ▲ Collapse
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Andy Watkinson
Spain
Local time: 04:30
Member
Catalan to English
+ ...
| Still chilled | Feb 14, 2007 |
CHECK THIS OUT!!! New online casino! (or viagra, or save your soul, or... whatever). If you don't see it, it's only because there is a team of moderators who enforce the rules. Now, do you think it is advisable and practical to enter into discussion and seek the poster's consent to delete such post?
Magda,
Are you suggesting that Malik was trying to offer his colleagues Viagra? Gambling sites?
No, I didn't think you were.
It's easy to use extreme examples such as yours to try and make a point, but it is far from convincing.
I doubt many of us have the time or inclination to read and memorise the dozens or hundreds of rules that govern this site, which would seem a prerequisite to being able to post here.
I suppose this is just another example of what a "fun" site ProZ is.
Andy
| | | | | Most manage the trick | Feb 14, 2007 |
Andy Watkinson wrote:
I doubt many of us have the time or inclination to read and memorise the dozens or hundreds of rules that govern this site, which would seem a prerequisite to being able to post here.
Fortunately the huge majority of posters manage the trick and follow the site rules.
Regards,
enrique
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