Why do forum postings of members suddenly have to be approved
Thread poster: Marinus Vesseur

Marinus Vesseur  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 21:55
English to Dutch
+ ...
Oct 13, 2007

I noticed today that forum postings are not immediately posted anymore. The moderator has to approve. This may mean long delays, as the moderator may want to sleep sometimes. Not a good idea, I object.

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writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
Are you sure? Oct 13, 2007

Marinus Vesseur wrote:

I noticed today that forum postings are not immediately posted anymore. The moderator has to approve. This may mean long delays, as the moderator may want to sleep sometimes. Not a good idea, I object.


Are you certain this is the case? Have you asked by submitting a support ticket? Surely it would have been announced if it's a change in policy. Afaik members whose postings are vetted are informed that their postings are being vetted.

ps-this posting appeared immediately

[Edited at 2007-10-13 09:39]


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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 06:55
English to German
+ ...
No change of policy - please check site rules Oct 13, 2007

Hi Marinus,
I take it this refers to two postings you made in the SDL Trados Support forum.

Before jumping to conclusions, you could have asked the moderator of that forum...



I noticed today that forum postings are not immediately posted anymore. The moderator has to approve.

How come this one appeared straight away?

The reason that the two postings concerned require vetting is that you posted links to a competing site. Please review the general site rules, in particular, rule no. 3 (relevant part highlighted):


Advertisements are prohibited.
Paid advertising is available from ProZ.com in designated areas of the site. Unauthorized commercial solicitation, sent via the forums, profile messages or elsewhere, is not allowed. Discussion of sites offering competing services is also prohibited, due to past abuse.


May I suggest to remove the URLs; alternatively, submit a Support Request to site staff, asking them to vet the posts.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Marinus Vesseur  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 21:55
English to Dutch
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
No links to the competition, please Oct 13, 2007

Hi Ralf

Those are the postings I referred to, yes. It occurred to me later that that would be the reason: the ProZ forum system is set to automatically recognize links to 'forbidden' destinations and puts the posting on hold. That makes sense for links to Nazi propaganda sites but as to links to translatorscafe, I find that childish. Is there an old feud between ProZ and them?

I keep running into stuff that unpleasantly reminds me about the commercial intentions of the ProZ owners. I can only hope that the interests of the translators are not going to fall by the wayside on the road to market leadership.

Still, thanks for your clarifications and the reliable job your doing.

Ralf Lemster wrote:

Hi Marinus,
I take it this refers to two postings you made in the SDL Trados Support forum.

Before jumping to conclusions, you could have asked the moderator of that forum...



I noticed today that forum postings are not immediately posted anymore. The moderator has to approve.

How come this one appeared straight away?

The reason that the two postings concerned require vetting is that you posted links to a competing site. Please review the general site rules, in particular, rule no. 3 (relevant part highlighted):


Advertisements are prohibited.
Paid advertising is available from ProZ.com in designated areas of the site. Unauthorized commercial solicitation, sent via the forums, profile messages or elsewhere, is not allowed. Discussion of sites offering competing services is also prohibited, due to past abuse.


May I suggest to remove the URLs; alternatively, submit a Support Request to site staff, asking them to vet the posts.

Best regards,
Ralf


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Giles Watson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 06:55
Italian to English
What's your point, Marinus? Oct 13, 2007

Marinus Vesseur wrote:

Is there an old feud between ProZ and them?

I keep running into stuff that unpleasantly reminds me about the commercial intentions of the ProZ owners. I can only hope that the interests of the translators are not going to fall by the wayside on the road to market leadership.



Hi Marinus,

Proz does not, as far as I know, exist to protect translators as a category.

I translate to earn a living, as I am sure you do, and Proz - at a price if you want the full monty - provides a marketplace that translators and outsourcers can use, or not, as they prefer.

What is "unpleasant" about making a living from a service that many translators are prepared to pay for?

And as a general rule, refraining from direct comments on your competition is good manners, as well as good business.

FWIW

Giles


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Marinus Vesseur  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 21:55
English to Dutch
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
No comment 'about' the competition intended Oct 14, 2007

Giles Watson wrote:

... What is "unpleasant" about making a living from a service that many translators are prepared to pay for? ... as a general rule, refraining from direct comments on your competition is good manners, as well as good business.


Thanks for your response, Giles. I am aware that ProZ is a business and has to make profit to be continued. So far so good.

I added a link to a forum that contained a thread about a technical issue for which there was no solution on the ProZ forum. The forum that did have the solution was a competitor's, so my posting was against the ProZ rules and thus not publicized.

This was a case where imho the interests of the translators should have overruled the business interests of ProZ. There was no obvious abuse in the posting. To forbid it anyway shows a paranoia about competitors websites that makes ProZ look greedy, as if it is seeking a monopoly position. If that is the aim of ProZ, I would resent it, is all I am saying.


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Giles Watson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 06:55
Italian to English
Why did you include the link? Oct 14, 2007

Marinus Vesseur wrote:

I added a link to a forum that contained a thread about a technical issue for which there was no solution on the ProZ forum. The forum that did have the solution was a competitor's, so my posting was against the ProZ rules and thus not publicized.



Quite right, too, if it was against the rules.

Could you not have communicated the information in such a way as to omit the link?

If that was not possible, remember that one of the nice things about Proz is that you can always suggest improvements. How would you redraft the "no links to competitors' sites" rule, which is in essence reasonable, to cover situations like yours?

It's a little to excessive to accuse Proz of "seeking a monopoly position" simply because the moderators were diligent enough to apply one of the current site rules to a posting that clearly contravened it.

FWIW

Giles


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
A Workaround.. Oct 14, 2007

Marinus Vesseur wrote:
I added a link to a forum that contained a thread about a technical issue for which there was no solution on the ProZ forum.

You could simply post on the other site, because there it is not forbidden to post links to competing sites..


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 00:55
SITE FOUNDER
I take your point, Marius Oct 14, 2007

Marinus Vesseur wrote:
This was a case where imho the interests of the translators should have overruled the business interests of ProZ. There was no obvious abuse in the posting.

I see your point, Marius, and obviously your post was in no way abusive. On the contrary, it was clearly meant to help. The policy could perhaps be reviewed these days... but you should know that it was not created out of paranoia--it did not exist at first--it was put in place due to abuse. I hope you understand!


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Marinus Vesseur  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 21:55
English to Dutch
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Defining abuse Oct 14, 2007

Thanks for your response. I racked my brain as to what that abuse could be (I'm a bit naive at times), but of course, if a competitor starts using the ProZ forum to advertise his own, which is probably what you mean by abuse, you'd have to intervene, I can see that.

Henry D wrote:
...-it was put in place due to abuse. I hope you understand!


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 06:55
English to German
+ ...
AS I see it... Oct 14, 2007

Henry and Co have been working since I know them to make the best working place at proz.com, that comes with best rhythm and style. I am sure anyone understands it. It is in the site´s good right not wishing to promote a few external competing links as a matter of business policyand may be also interest of the community.

As harry suggests one could and is probably equally in a position to post at an another site, may be your own site. I personally find all this is unnecessary escalation. There are a certain site rules we all have agreed to abide and the moderators are perpetually busy cleaning and or moving threads.

With all due sympathies to Marinus, you may not have meant anything with extenal link publication, except a certan point you wanted to indicate, but apparently it comes somewhat to the same result. Best regards, Brandis


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