Off topic: ¿Cual sirve más?
Thread poster: Wenjer Leuschel
Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 08:25
English to Chinese
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Mar 4, 2006

Dear EnglishSpanish colleagues,

I found two Spanish translations of John Milton's Sonnet 19. Since I am neither English nor Spanish native, I cannot decide which one is more accuarate.

http://www.ucm.es/info/especulo/numero21/anex_ceg.html
(Sonnet 19 is at about the end of the page.)

Would you please tell me your opinions on these two translations? You may write in Spanish. I'll try my best to understand your opinions in Spanish, too.

Many thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Wenjer

[Edited at 2006-03-04 21:51]


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claudia bagnardi  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:25
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Hi Wenjer! Mar 4, 2006

I've been reading both poems.

There seems to be no doubt that Perednik's, though less literal, is more poetical.

The rythm is perfect in Spanish, and the use of words, much richer.

By the way, there is no mention of the second translator.

My two cents.


Claudia


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 08:25
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Some more light Mar 5, 2006

Grácias, Claudia!

Perednik's translation is fine for me. The other one is much more literally translated. However, there is at least one difference in contents understanding between the two:

Y oculta y muerta esa moneda mía
Me hallo inepto, aunque mi alma se ha inclinado
Tras ello a servir a Dios y ha abjurado
De culpas por ganar Su Simpatía

In comparison to:

Y ese talento que es la muerte esconder
Alojado en mí, inútil; aunque mi alma se ha inclinado
Para servir así a mi Creador, y presentarle
Mis culpas y ganar su aprecio

It is to notice that "moneda" is different than "talento". We know from the Lucas 19:20 the famous parabel:

"Then the one who had received the one talent came forward and said, 'Master, I knew you were a demanding person, harvesting where you did not plant and gathering where you did not scatter; so out of fear I went off and buried your talent in the ground. Here it is back.'"

In comparison to:

"Vino otro diciendo: Señor, aquí está tu mina, la cual he tenido guardada en su pañuelo; porque tuve miedo de tí, por cuanto eres hombre severo, que tomas loque no pusiste, y siegas lo que no sembré."

There we see that Milton's "Talent" means at the same time the gift and the capital God gave him.

I am just wondering wether it is proper to have "moneda" in place of "talento" for this double meaning.

Could you or any colleague give me some light?

Thanks!

- Wenjer


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Clarisa Moraña  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 21:25
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Yes, "talent" can be translated as "Moneda" Mar 5, 2006

The man at Lucas had received money, perhaps a gold coin , and he is returning it. I'm not sure if "mina" is the proper translation. But a quick search in glossaried found at the WWW confirmed me that TALENT is a MONEDA.

Taken from: "A Glossary of XVIIth Century Biblical English Words & Expressions" (http://whtjgr.homestead.com/index.html)

TALENT: Semitic unit of money as weight of silver or gold, about 35 kg or 78 lbs.; the probable Attic talent [Revelation 16:1], about 26 kg or 57 lbs.

And TALENTO, acording to the Diccionario de la Real Academia:
4. m. Moneda de cuenta de los griegos y de los romanos.


And if you travel in time, and search in Diccionario de la Real Academia, year 1739, you got:

TALENTO: Moneda que usaron los antiguos en diversos Reinos, cuyo valor fijo no está averiguado por darsele variamente segun la diversidad de las Provincias: como Hebraico, Persico, Babilonico, Syriaco, y otros. Habíalos de oro, y de plata...
(note the weird wording, but it's an old Spanish dictionnary)

Regards

Clarisa Moraña

[Edited at 2006-03-05 06:24]


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
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Local time: 08:25
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The origin of "mina" Mar 5, 2006

Thank you very much, Clarisa, for your detailed explanation. The references are very helpful for me.

As to the word "mina", I found it in the "Santa Biblia", printed 1960 by Sociedades Biblicas en América Latina. The word appears in Lucas 19:20. Well, the Santa Biblia is also "antigua". Sometimes, I am astonished to read some interesting wordings in the Bible, too.

Mil grácias!

Wenjer


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Clarisa Moraña  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 21:25
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
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Mina: moneda de cien dragmas Mar 5, 2006

According to the Dictionario de la Real Academia, year 1734.

Mina: Entre los antiguos, moneda que entre los griegos pesaba 100 dragmas o una libra.

Thus, "mina" would be also correct. And, yes, you are right, reading the Bible is quite an enlighting job. Sometimes words do not have what we think is the usual meaning.

Regards

Clarisa


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claudia bagnardi  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:25
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Curious... Mar 6, 2006

The use of "moneda" is one of the resources I liked best in Perednik's poem. The meaning is correct (talento=moneda) and it suits the rhyme better.
I prefer certain freedom for the sake of rhyme and rythm, than literal translation, mainly in the realms poetry and marketing.

Claudia


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 08:25
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER
Agreed Mar 6, 2006

claudia bagnardi wrote:

The use of "moneda" is one of the resources I liked best in Perednik's poem. The meaning is correct (talento=moneda) and it suits the rhyme better.
I prefer certain freedom for the sake of rhyme and rythm, than literal translation, mainly in the realms poetry and marketing.

Claudia


Sure, Claudia,

I agree with you. The rythm of a text can achieve certain emotional effects like music. Rhymes are there to smoothen the turns of the rythm. We need such devices when translating poems, marketing materials and/or political speeches.

Wenjer


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