¿Ruinas aztecas en Guatemala?
Thread poster: George Rabel

George Rabel  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:21
English to Spanish
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Feb 2, 2007

Me llamó la atención el que en la página principal de una importante aerolínea estadounidense aparece una promoción de vuelos a Guatemala y hablan de "ruinas aztecas".
Que yo sepa, el imperio azteca se extendió hasta cerca de la Guatemala actual, pero es la cultura maya la que dominó la zona. Cuando pienso en Guatemala, pienso en los mayas, no en los aztecas.



[Edited at 2007-02-02 21:03]


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Jenny Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:21
Member (2006)
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Maya, I'm pretty sure Feb 2, 2007

I'm pretty sure you're right, George. It should be Maya ruins. My father, George Ordish, was something of an expert in ancient Latin American cultures and I think he would have agreed with you. I doubt if the people who write brochures for airlines do much research!
Best wishes, Jenny.


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Patricia Rosas  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:21
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Mayan ... Feb 2, 2007

George,
I was afraid to speak up since I'm no expert, but I agree with Jenny and this is why (as I understand it, and I hope people will jump in a correct me if I'm wrong):

The Mexica (through an alliance with 2 other tribes) conquered and assimilated the peoples of a swath of territory down to, but not including, Guatemala. This is what is today called the "Aztec Empire." It encompassed Nahuatl-speaking peoples, but "Aztec" is not an ethnicity, in and of itself. The empire survived a scant 200 years, whereas the Mayan civilization after its classic period, decline, but also revived somewhat and continued. While the Aztecs controlled a lot of territory militarily, the Mayan culture was also very widespread, and included, of course, parts of Central America.

Apparently, some Nahuatl speakers went with the Spaniards into Guatemala, as part of the army of conquest, and they remained there. But I'm certain they weren't constructing anything elaborate enough to merit mention in an airline brochure!

So, now, this seems to me to be just another case of a pathetic, insulting mistake.
Patricia


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Liliana Roman-Hamilton  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:21
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Tikal Feb 3, 2007

Hi George,

Sorry for replying in English to your post started in Spanish, but I noticed that other colleagues before me did it, so...

I agree with the previous posts, I think they confused Mayan ruins for Atzec.
The most important Guatemalan archaeological site they might refer to could be Tikal . The site is in the middle of the jungle, but it's a must-see stop on the numerous excorted tours of central America.


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swisstell
Italy
Local time: 13:21
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Mayan Ruins Feb 3, 2007

definitely, - and I visited quite a few of them in Guatemala when working in Central America.

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Parrot  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:21
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Maya... Feb 3, 2007

México (cuna de la cultura azteca) también tiene ruinas mayas, pero las más antiguas y complejas están en Guatemala. Esto indicaría que las raíces de la cultura maya se encuentran más bien en Guatemala.

(Hope you didn't have to translate that one and get into an argument with the client)


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Noni Gilbert
Spain
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Mayan Feb 3, 2007

Visited them on honeymoon - happy memories, and definitely no Aztecs around!

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GLENN MCBRIDE WITHENSHAW
Mexico
Local time: 06:21
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there are aztec ruins in Guatemala Feb 3, 2007

There are aztec ruins in Guatemala. In 1486 the Aztec emperor Ahuizotl established a colony in Guatemala. He was said to have sacrificed 75,000 guatemalan warriors at the dedication of the temple he built there. He relocated 9000 aztec families to this colony in western Guatemala called Pijijiapan. There are nahuatl speakers in this area in Guatemala today. He died in 1502 and his son Moctezuma became emperor and was taken prisoner by Cortez in 1519.

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George Rabel  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:21
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Thank you, Glen. Feb 4, 2007

glennmcbride wrote:

There are aztec ruins in Guatemala. In 1486 the Aztec emperor Ahuizotl established a colony in Guatemala. He was said to have sacrificed 75,000 guatemalan warriors at the dedication of the temple he built there. He relocated 9000 aztec families to this colony in western Guatemala called Pijijiapan. There are nahuatl speakers in this area in Guatemala today. He died in 1502 and his son Moctezuma became emperor and was taken prisoner by Cortez in 1519.



Very interesting bit of information,Glen. Now, although it might be technically correct and accurate to speak of Aztec ruins in Guatemala, if it is the Mayan, rather than the Aztec ruins, what the country is best known for, it seems odd to me that they would choose to highlight the latter.


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GLENN MCBRIDE WITHENSHAW
Mexico
Local time: 06:21
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I just was commenting that there are Aztec (Mexica) Feb 4, 2007

I was just commenting that there are Aztec ruins in Guatemala. I first learned about this when I saw a map of languages spoken in the americas and I noticed that there is an isolated patch of nahuatl speakers in Guatemala. Most of Guatemala's indigenous peoples speak quiché (maya) - the "popul vuh" is written in quiché.

In your case it probably is an error when they refer to Aztec ruins, but it possibly is not. By the way in Mexico, Aztec is considered incorrect and the preferred term is Mexica - the word Aztec was not used until many years after the conquest and only by the Spanish.


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Yaotl Altan  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 06:21
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Buena nota Feb 5, 2007

De acuerdo con Patricia y su conocimiento sobre el imperio azteca. Coincido n que debe tratarse de un error.

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Juan Jacob  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 06:21
French to Spanish
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No creo... Feb 6, 2007

...y sería contraproducente hacerle publicidad a sitios "aztecas" en plena tierra maya. Hay que recordar también que "el imperio mexica" duró -sorprendentemente, sólo unos 200 años en los que edificaron su impresionante capital Tenochtitlán y avasallaron a muchísimas poblaciones -algunas bastante lejanas como las del Soconusco, cercano a Guatemala- pero no construyeron ni grandes ni pequeñas ciudades más que en su "omgligo del mundo". Subyugaban a poblaciones enteras y las obligaban a pagar tributo: no destruían para edificar sus cuidades, como lo hicieran los españoles.
Por otro lado, debo coincidir totalemente con glennmcbride en cuanto a que el nombre correcto que es mexica, no azteca, que probablemente haya surgido de que dicha tribu saliera de Aztlán, pero nada más falso. Ellos nunca se llamaron a sí mismo más que "mexicas" y de ahí, por supuesto, México.
Recordemos también que los estadounidenses no son muy afectos a la precisión geográfica fuera de sus fronteras que digamos: aztecas, incas, guaraníes, indios, Centro América, Sudamérica, carnaval de Río, la Pampa: todo eso es muy exótico y se encuentra al sur del Río Bravo.


[Editado a las 2007-02-06 03:32]


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George Rabel  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:21
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Never argue with my clients. Feb 6, 2007

Parrot wrote:

(Hope you didn't have to translate that one and get into an argument with the client)

I did have to translate it, Parrot. They objected to my use of the adjective before the noun, as in "diversa cultura", so I changed it to "cultura diversa". As long as they pay and keep me busy, they can mention Zulu pyramids in Iceland. I do bring up obvious mistakes on their part, but ultimately I do whatever they ask.


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George Rabel  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:21
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This is PRICELESS! Feb 21, 2007

Pues, casi tres semanas después de haber traducido la imagen en cuestión, la empresa para la cual trabajo recibe esta nota del cliente:

We have a problem in our Guatemala main message.
Although the message was reviewed by many, including our International Marketing team, it just came to our attention that it says “Aztec ruins” and not “Mayan ruins”. (!)
I’m fixing the English version – and will let you know when it’s live – but can you please already start correcting the Spanish version, substituting the word ‘Aztec” with “Mayan”?

¿Dónde habrán estudiado estos chicos y chicas del "International Marketing Team?


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