Student users-only topic
Student accounts are not able to quote
Thread poster: Michela Carlesso
Michela Carlesso  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:48
Chinese to Italian
+ ...
Nov 16, 2007

Hi!
I'm a bit disappointed with my Student account because every job I receive on my email, that means I meet the criteria for quoting on the job, says the same thing "Student accounts are not able to quote". Is it happening to you too?
The incredible thing is that, if I were only registered on the website but had no kind of account, I would be able to quote...
Hope someone will be able to explain me what's wrong and if it's just my mistake...


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Soledad Azcona  Identity Verified
Brazil
English to Spanish
+ ...
It's an interesting issue you raise here Nov 16, 2007

Hi Michela,

No, not directly. At the moment student members do not appear in the directory of professionals and can't quote on posted jobs.

If you, or any of the student members, bought your membership believing you would be able to quote or that you would appear at the freelancer directory with professional members you may ask for a refund.

Now, you don't get access to the jobs area, but any networking that you do, or trainings that you take advantage of, may help to reduce the time it takes to build your client base when you enter the professional phase of your career.

That means that the more active you are in the site -the more postings you make, the more KudoZ questions you answer or ask, the more you network and help others- the larger will be your exposure and your chances of being contacted. Moreover, every time you participate in the site your profile gets better indexed by Google and you take a new step into the translations world, into building your name in the community and as future translator.

As students you can find at ProZ.com a place to show yourselves, to show what you can do and would love to do, to establish contact with professionals and translation and interpreting students, become familiar with the profession while watching professionals work, to develop the networks that will serve you as professionals, to start learning the industry before you graduate, learning at forums, reading articles, meeting professionals at powwows.
We also give members the option of attending conferences and training sessions at a discounted rate to prepare practically for your future careers, and optionally to engage in actual translation work, under the direction of a mentor, an NGO, or a client in a special circumstance.

Moreover, student members have the chance to play a leadership role with ideas and feedback that will help us develop the Students area, and enjoy privileged access to its features. That's why we have our "StudentZ Pub", for members to propose and discuss on features for the student area.

Still, the question that you pose here is very interesting and I would very much like to see what other students think about this. This is something we should work out from and for the students' community.

Remember that you, the community, are the site. We are here to work for you.

Soledad


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Karol Kacprzak  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 09:48
English to Polish
+ ...
It's not the way it should be... Nov 19, 2007

I must say I was also disappointed with this. I bought the membership basically for one reason - the contests. Never have I expected, however, to have my possibilities restricted by paying for the membership, be it full or student. We obviously get some other nice benefits like the ability to participate in the mentoring / apprenticeship program or the front-page exposure but, well... inability to quote is a really big thing. I hope the other benefits are worth it (not to mention the monies).

I will not ask for the refund but I admit I have been considering it. (Hey, I still wanna take part in those Proz contests )

Nonetheless, I think what follows:
a) paying for the membership should not have minuses.
b) as long as it does, information about them should be added somewhere on the "Join Proz.com" site.


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Anne Diamantidis  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:48
Member (2007)
English to French
+ ...
Hang on a sec Nov 19, 2007

Hi guys

Honestly - you can't be expecting to pay 100 € less than professionnals, yet have the same benefits as them...!


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Michela Carlesso  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:48
Chinese to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
misunderstanding... Nov 20, 2007

Dear Anne,

what I meant to say is not that student accounts should have the same benefits of real members who pay much more than students.

What I would like Proz to think about is that, before becoming a student member when I was only registered on the website without paying anything, I was able to quote, maybe after 12 hours, but I was still able to do it.
Now, paying, I cannot quote on a job even after 12 hours, I'm completely excluded.
That's just nonsense, without paying I could quote and now, paying, I can't do it anymore.

So the nonsense is not between members and student accounts, but rather between student accounts and no members...

This is the only thing I could not understand


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Soledad Azcona  Identity Verified
Brazil
English to Spanish
+ ...
Account type freezing Nov 20, 2007

Dear Michela,

In order to solve this problem we will freeze account type switching, and students will have the possibility to change your account type via support ticket.

This will be implemented next Monday, and I’m announcing it now so that all users and members can have the chance to choose the account type that best suits your needs and expectations at the site and your careers. Also, I want to give you all the chance to post your opinion on this issue at this thread before the change is implemented.

On the same line, all student member profiles will be set to account type student.

Student members that would like to have an upgrade on your membership to a professional one to enjoy unlimited access to the jobs area please contact me.

Once again, remember that you, the community, are the site, so I am very much looking forward to feedback from the student community about this.

Regards to all,

Soledad.


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Karol Kacprzak  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 09:48
English to Polish
+ ...
I'm not sure I understand Nov 21, 2007

SoleProz wrote:
In order to solve this problem we will freeze account type switching, and students will have the possibility to change your account type via support ticket.


How exactly does that solve the problem?


I'm baffled that so few students have an opinion on this topic...

Karol


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Soledad Azcona  Identity Verified
Brazil
English to Spanish
+ ...
Terminology issue Nov 21, 2007

Thanks Karol!

I guess it will be a good idea to clarify some terms at this point, to avoid further confusion.

When you create a profile at the site you register as a user, i.e. someone that uses the site but does not pay a membership.
All profiles have an account type (users and members) that is the kind of profile you have and you may choose it considering your role in the translation industry and your needs at the site. When you create your profile, you can select account type "student", "freelancer", "outsourcer", "both" (that is when you act sometimes as a freelancer and sometimes as an outsoucer), "end client", and "none of the above".
Then, after you register at the site, and have your profile with your account type, you may want to become a member, that is getting access to all or more of the site's features by joining our community of members, that is paying a membership. You may want to buy a "student membership", "freelancer membership" (full access to all site features), "partial jobs membership" (full access to jobs area features only), "partial community membership" (full access to community features only) and "corporate membership" (full access to translation companies special features at the site).

At the moment, you may change your account type freely. It is something that one normally would rarely do, you may want to change your account type when you graduate and become a freelancer, or if a freelancer decides to start acting as a company for instance.
Since, as Michela points out, this may end up giving different possibilities to student users and student members, we are going to freeze that option and you may ask for a account type change in your profile via support ticket. Also we are going to set a correspondence between account type student and student membership.

We do that with the idea of adding value to the student membership, and have announced it before to give space for discussion and give everybody the chance to make their choice before the change is made.

Look forward to hear other students' opinions on this.

Regards,

Sole.


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Anne Diamantidis  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:48
Member (2007)
English to French
+ ...
Students and jobs Nov 21, 2007

Karol Kacprzak wrote:

I'm baffled that so few students have an opinion on this topic...

Karol


Hi Michela and Karol

I can understand your amazement, yet you have to "broaden" your view and realise that ProZ is a worldwide community, that means that we all are coming from different countries - which all have their own legislations.
For instance, it's quite complicated for French translation students to do translations - that is, if they want to do it properly (there are sadly some people out there who don't care about the market and just do undeclared translations for shameful prices).
So, what I'm saying is, in many countries it is considered illegal to translate for money while being a student (and thus not registered and not declared). ProZ is not responsible for that, and cannot take into account the laws of all countries in the world.

Plus, when you bought your Student membership, you perfectly saw- and hopefully read ! - the benefits of student membership - access to job area is not among them.

On that page ( http://www.proz.com/join/student) it's perfectly stated about Student membership :
"Are you studying to become a translator or interpreter?"

I think it's crystal clear enough who that membership is for, isn't it ?

So, that's maybe why few students don't react in this topic, because they didn't come here to seek jobs, and so don't feel concerned. Personally, I consider it perfectly normal for us not to have access to jobs - we're students, arent's we ? Not professionals. and that's it.
Can you imagine the reaction of a real pro on the site, with 20 years experience, with taxes to pay and a family to feed, who pays 120€ and get jobs... and a translation student - even if we consider ourselves perfectly able to provide a quality work, we are not in a position to negotiate prices and we don't have 20 years experience - take his jobs at low market prices.... He would complain, and he would be 500% right.

So, if you consider yourself a freelancer and not a student, then buy freelance membership. End of the story

I'm sure you understand that - let's see what the others think, but please always, always keep in mind that we all come from differents countries, with differents laws and, most importantly, different cultures !

CheerZ,
Anne




[Modifié le 2007-11-21 14:59]


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Manuela Mariño Beltrán  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:48
French to Spanish
+ ...
My opinion Nov 23, 2007

Hello dear students

I tried once to apply for a job and was told I couln't do it because I was a student. I think it would be good if we could apply for jobs, I do not know, maybe 12 hours later or so... In the end, it will be the client who will make his choice and if he chooses a student, he will have to deal with legal matters and other things, but that does have nothing to do with Proz (it will be a private contract between two persons).

But what I think is most important, is that if you are a student, it is quite obvious that you are not richer than a person who is a professional translator...

In order not to have people who become student members without being students (but only because they do not want to pay for another kind of subscription) I think it would be good that Proz asked us to certify that we REALLY are students... And like that, all the benefits will be only for people who are studying in order to become a professional translator (that is the reason why we are making studies, isn't it?)

You say, Anne, that we are not professionals. That is true, but that does not mean that we should not be able to get a job from time to time (if we respect the laws of the country we are living in). For example, at ESIT, we can make translations for professionals (being students) and we are paid for it, but only because the school has contracts for students that respect french laws. We are students, but our school prepares us for professional life. It is good to have some experience, mostly if you expect to become a freelance translator after you finish your studies. And it would be nice if Proz could be a platform for us...

I do not expect to have all the benefits by only being a student. Nevertheless, I think this site should be a place where to find a possibilty to make our first steps into translation world. That is why, I insist that when subscribing to ProZ, student members should be able to prove that they are really making studies. That would be a way to avoid cheaters to get a student membership and it would allow students to have access to some jobs so that they can have a professional experience while studying. I think that anyone who is a student will be ok when he or she will be asked to send ProZ a certification to prove the reality of his or her studies.

CheerZ,

Manuela

[Editado a las 2007-11-23 22:56]


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Laura Collins  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:48
Spanish to English
Thank you for bringing up this topic Nov 24, 2007

I, too, was a little surprised to see that as a student I would be blocked from quoting; however, I realize that I am still in a training period and that I cannot accurately present myself as a "translator" until I have completed that training. Thank you for providing more insight into this and for explaining the process to make a profile change when the time is appropriate.

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S_Angel  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 09:48
German to Italian
+ ...
Not-paying users Nov 24, 2007

Anne Diamantidis wrote:

Can you imagine the reaction of a real pro on the site, with 20 years experience, with taxes to pay and a family to feed, who pays 120€ and get jobs... and a translation student - even if we consider ourselves perfectly able to provide a quality work, we are not in a position to negotiate prices and we don't have 20 years experience - take his jobs at low market prices.... He would complain, and he would be 500% right.


Hi everybody!
I would like to say something on this important topic too.
Anne, I understand what you are saying, but then what would the same pro think when he sees a simple user of the site, who pays absolutely nothing, quote 12 hours later and maybe get the job?
I think the real problem here is that simple users are able to quote... if they can, then why not us?


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Manuela Mariño Beltrán  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:48
French to Spanish
+ ...
Right !!! Nov 24, 2007

S_Angel wrote:
Hi everybody!
I would like to say something on this important topic too.
Anne, I understand what you are saying, but then what would the same pro think when he sees a simple user of the site, who pays absolutely nothing, quote 12 hours later and maybe get the job?
I think the real problem here is that simple users are able to quote... if they can, then why not us?


Hey, that's exactly the point!!! Well said dude


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ap sprachen  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:48
Spanish to German
+ ...
Direct contact for student collaboration Nov 25, 2007

Hi students,

I basically agree to S_Angel. Users who don't pay anything should not be able to quote at all. Students who pay a lower fee should not be excluded from quoting. By honestly having registered as student members we are not "betraying" anyone, pretending to be already a well-established professional. In the end it is the outsourcers' choice whether s/he gives the job to a student (clearly recognizable via the profile) or a professional.

I would also like to point out that if an outsourcer is looking exactly for a student to collaborate in a project, offers an internship, or things like that, s/he can post a job offer and keep it open to direct contact. I don't know whether every outsourcer knows that there is this possibility to reach students via the site. My suggestion: ProZ could promote the chances for its student members to get professional training by adding this idea to the general instructions on "how to post a job" for outsourcers. Some days ago a translation agency in Spain posted such an "open" offer for a traineeship. I replied, and it seems as if it worked out. In January I will be going there - and I would like to say thank you, ProZ, for this great platform. It has been a very lucky first month of student membership for me so far Good luck for all the rest of you, students.


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