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Ask me anything about subtitling
Thread poster: Max Deryagin

Carlos Castillo
Venezuela
Local time: 11:43
English to Spanish
+ ...
Difference in SCC timecodes between raw file and editor Nov 27, 2019

Max Deryagin wrote:


Hi Carlos,

The timecodes you see in the SCC file aren't for when your captions are supposed to pop on; they are for when your captions are supposed to start loading on the CC decoding device. At 29.97 FPS DF, each four-byte group will take one frame to load, and all of them need to load before your caption can be displayed. What happens when you open your file in an editor is the editor adds these frames back for export compatibility purposes, so you get different timecodes.

So, what you need to do with your converter is take into account the load times of your captions. (Or better still, use a pro captioning tool.)



Thank you very much for your reply, Max. I thought I enabled email notifications for replies here, that's why I took long to reply.

Now I understand. The thing is that these captions are for a client that sends sporadic work, not steady enough to pay for a tool myself. Another client pays for an editing platform that handles this professionally. So, no problem there.

I can see now why different captions have different "delays." Do you know why these loading times do not affect the captions in VLC media player? When I play a video with a .scc file that accounts for those times, they always lead the audio. Is this only for TV broadcasting? What about DVDs?

A few other questions:

- What about other framerates?
- Does this count for text bytes and commands too?
- What about the doubled-up commands? Are they considered in the calculation or only one of them?



Thank you very much again.

[Edited at 2019-11-27 13:14 GMT]


 

Max Deryagin  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 20:43
Member (2013)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
- Nov 27, 2019

Do you know why these loading times do not affect the captions in VLC media player?


I'm not quite sure. There can be many possible reasons for that, so I recommend asking this question on the VLC forums.


Is this only for TV broadcasting? What about DVDs?


Load times are part of the SCC format's design. They should be there regardless of what software/hardware you use to display your captions.


What about other framerates?


The SCC format was originally created for Line 21, so it only supports 29.97, but you can trick it into working for 23.976 by doing something akin to a reverse telecine 2:3 pulldown of your load times (i.e. you add a frame for the first 2 bytes, then one for the next 3 bytes, then one for 2 bytes, then one for 3 bytes, etc.).


Does this count for text bytes and commands too?


It counts for all the bytes in your file, whether they're commands or text.


What about the doubled-up commands? Are they considered in the calculation or only one of them?


They are considered.


Also, please note that the timecodes in your SCC file need to be far enough apart from one another to give each caption enough time to load. Otherwise, they might display only partially or not at all. This is one of the big differences between subtitling and closed captioning.


 

Carlos Castillo
Venezuela
Local time: 11:43
English to Spanish
+ ...
Difference in SCC timecodes between raw file and editor Nov 27, 2019

Thank you very much.




Also, please note that the timecodes in your SCC file need to be far enough apart from one another to give each caption enough time to load. Otherwise, they might display only partially or not at all. This is one of the big differences between subtitling and closed captioning.



So, if I understand correctly, having a caption that is erased—or another caption is displayed—before it has enough time to load will make it invisible, right? Or probably it just flashes on screen.


 

Max Deryagin  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 20:43
Member (2013)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
- Nov 27, 2019

Carlos Castillo wrote:

Thank you very much.




Also, please note that the timecodes in your SCC file need to be far enough apart from one another to give each caption enough time to load. Otherwise, they might display only partially or not at all. This is one of the big differences between subtitling and closed captioning.


So, if I understand correctly, having a caption that is erased—or another caption is displayed—before it has enough time to load will make it invisible, right? Or probably it just flashes on screen.


Something like that, yes. What exactly will happen depends on the CC decoder, I guess, but it won't be what you want.

[Edited at 2019-11-27 21:27 GMT]


 

Carlos Castillo
Venezuela
Local time: 11:43
English to Spanish
+ ...
Difference in SCC timecodes between raw file and editor Nov 28, 2019


Something like that, yes. What exactly will happen depends on the CC decoder, I guess, but it won't be what you want.

[Edited at 2019-11-27 21:27 GMT]


Hi Max,

I reviewed the files I have and realized that the "shift" matches 1 frame per hexadecimal word for each caption, but minus 2 frames. Is it possible that one of the commands 9420 (Resume Caption Loading), 94ae (Erase Non-displayed Memory), or 942f (End Of Caption) doesn't take any frames to load?


 

Max Deryagin  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 20:43
Member (2013)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
- Nov 28, 2019

Carlos Castillo wrote:


Something like that, yes. What exactly will happen depends on the CC decoder, I guess, but it won't be what you want.


Hi Max,

I reviewed the files I have and realized that the "shift" matches 1 frame per hexadecimal word for each caption, but minus 2 frames. Is it possible that one of the commands 9420 (Resume Caption Loading), 94ae (Erase Non-displayed Memory), or 942f (End Of Caption) doesn't take any frames to load?


I suggest we move this discussion to direct messages. I'll write to you.


 
align left-center subtitles Nov 30, 2019

Hello, here's the question:

i made an EBU stl subtitle file with Subtitle Edit and i need to justify with left alignment the dialogue subtitles, but this software can't do it.
So i downloaded Subtitle Next demo, imported the file, left-aligned the dialogues and then exported again in ebu stl, either open or teletext, but when i open it with Next the dialogues are still centered.



Subtitle Next has the default option in the style menu that automaticall
... See more
Hello, here's the question:

i made an EBU stl subtitle file with Subtitle Edit and i need to justify with left alignment the dialogue subtitles, but this software can't do it.
So i downloaded Subtitle Next demo, imported the file, left-aligned the dialogues and then exported again in ebu stl, either open or teletext, but when i open it with Next the dialogues are still centered.



Subtitle Next has the default option in the style menu that automatically left-align the subtitles begging with "-"
So when i open the subtitles made with next, i see the dialogues left-aligned but it's only cause there is that option turned on, in fact when i deselect it the dialogues return centered.

The question is how can i save that ebu stl file with left-centered dialogues and how can i be sure that are aligned when i open them with next

thanks hope you understood
Collapse


 

Max Deryagin  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 20:43
Member (2013)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
- Nov 30, 2019

Francesco Zignani wrote:

Hello, here's the question:

i made an EBU stl subtitle file with Subtitle Edit and i need to justify with left alignment the dialogue subtitles, but this software can't do it.
So i downloaded Subtitle Next demo, imported the file, left-aligned the dialogues and then exported again in ebu stl, either open or teletext, but when i open it with Next the dialogues are still centered.



Subtitle Next has the default option in the style menu that automatically left-align the subtitles begging with "-"
So when i open the subtitles made with next, i see the dialogues left-aligned but it's only cause there is that option turned on, in fact when i deselect it the dialogues return centered.

The question is how can i save that ebu stl file with left-centered dialogues and how can i be sure that are aligned when i open them with next

thanks hope you understood


Hi Francesco,

Subtitle Edit actually supports alignment for its EBU STL export. Here's what you can do:

1. Download the latest version of Subtitle Next.
2. Open your subtitle file in it.
3. Go to File > Save as...
4. Choose EBU STL from the drop-down list of formats.
5. Click Save.
6. In the new dialog box, go to the Text and Timing Information tab.
7. In Justification code, choose Left justified text.
8. Click OK.

(Note: the EBU STL format doesn't support aligning a subset of your subtitles — you can only choose to align or not align the whole file.)


 
Ask me anything about subtitling Dec 1, 2019

thanks for your reply

with left alignment i inteded centered-left alignment (sorry my fault) like this:

http://i.imgur.com/y5y7HMn.jpg

so it's not possible to do this with ebu stl?


 

Max Deryagin  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 20:43
Member (2013)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
- Dec 1, 2019

Francesco Zignani wrote:

thanks for your reply

with left alignment i inteded centered-left alignment (sorry my fault) like this:

http://i.imgur.com/y5y7HMn.jpg

so it's not possible to do this with ebu stl?


Well... technically speaking, it is possible — if you left-align your subs and then add a particular number of spaces before the first and second lines in each subtitle, they'll look center left-aligned. EZTitles can do this automatically; it has this EBU STL export option called Align with spaces. I don't recommend doing this, though.


 

Anu Mukharji-Gorski  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:43
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
not synchronized Dec 4, 2019

Hallo,

I am using subtitle editor3.5.10

The waveform generated from the video (.mpg) and displayed below does not correspond with the audio heard in the playback.

The waveform shows the sound a few milliseconds before the audio.

Eg. the wavesound shows a wave at 10:06:10 but the sound comes at 10:06:12. And according to the video, the sound is at 10:06:12.

I tried generating a new profile by clearing the saved waveforms via Option
... See more
Hallo,

I am using subtitle editor3.5.10

The waveform generated from the video (.mpg) and displayed below does not correspond with the audio heard in the playback.

The waveform shows the sound a few milliseconds before the audio.

Eg. the wavesound shows a wave at 10:06:10 but the sound comes at 10:06:12. And according to the video, the sound is at 10:06:12.

I tried generating a new profile by clearing the saved waveforms via Options -> Settings -> Tools -> waveform - "Empty spectrogram and waveform folder" and restarted SE, but the problem persists.

Any help would be much appreciated

Regards
Anu

p.s. edited to say that the problem has been solved after using video player->directshow



[Edited at 2019-12-04 15:11 GMT]
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Max Deryagin
 

FXF
France
General question about the time you take to subtitle Dec 10, 2019

Hello,
I would be very interested to know how long people take to do one minute's subtitling. There is no translation to do just the spotting and placing the subs which have been sent to me. The dialogue is intense, most of the time, but only one person speaking at a time. I'm just amazed at the different times it took me to do this (I did a dummy run with five minutes of video in order to do a quote for the client). Each minute was different varying from 10 to 25 minutes of work! How
... See more
Hello,
I would be very interested to know how long people take to do one minute's subtitling. There is no translation to do just the spotting and placing the subs which have been sent to me. The dialogue is intense, most of the time, but only one person speaking at a time. I'm just amazed at the different times it took me to do this (I did a dummy run with five minutes of video in order to do a quote for the client). Each minute was different varying from 10 to 25 minutes of work! How long does it take you?
Many thanks for your input
BTW I've never posted here before, so I hope this is the right thread, it seems to have lots of different topics...but sorry if I'm posting in the wrong place!
Collapse


 

Max Deryagin  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 20:43
Member (2013)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
- Dec 10, 2019

FXF wrote:

Hello,
I would be very interested to know how long people take to do one minute's subtitling. There is no translation to do just the spotting and placing the subs which have been sent to me. The dialogue is intense, most of the time, but only one person speaking at a time. I'm just amazed at the different times it took me to do this (I did a dummy run with five minutes of video in order to do a quote for the client). Each minute was different varying from 10 to 25 minutes of work! How long does it take you?
Many thanks for your input
BTW I've never posted here before, so I hope this is the right thread, it seems to have lots of different topics...but sorry if I'm posting in the wrong place!


Hi FXF,

It very much depends on the video's dialogue density, the client's style guide's complexity and whether I'm sent a dialogue list, transcript or something like that. As far as intense videos, I can usually do up to one video hour per work day with a high-quality transcript, about 40 minutes with an okay transcript (either not very accurate or containing lots of redundant information), and about 30 minutes with a poor transcript or no transcript at all. This includes segmentation and spotting.


 

FXF
France
General question about the time you take to subtitle Dec 11, 2019

Max Deryagin wrote:



Hi FXF,

It very much depends on the video's dialogue density, the client's style guide's complexity and whether I'm sent a dialogue list, transcript or something like that. As far as intense videos, I can usually do up to one video hour per work day with a high-quality transcript, about 40 minutes with an okay transcript (either not very accurate or containing lots of redundant information), and about 30 minutes with a poor transcript or no transcript at all. This includes segmentation and spotting.



Thank you for your reply Max that's very helpful. I doubt very much that I could go as quickly as that but who knows! I'm going to do another minute now to see if I've got any faster than yesterday!
Thanks again!


Max Deryagin
 

FXF
France
General question about the time you take to subtitle Dec 11, 2019

Max Deryagin wrote:

FXF wrote:

Hello,
I would be very interested to know how long people take to do one minute's subtitling. There is no translation to do just the spotting and placing the subs which have been sent to me. The dialogue is intense, most of the time, but only one person speaking at a time. I'm just amazed at the different times it took me to do this (I did a dummy run with five minutes of video in order to do a quote for the client). Each minute was different varying from 10 to 25 minutes of work! How long does it take you?
Many thanks for your input
BTW I've never posted here before, so I hope this is the right thread, it seems to have lots of different topics...but sorry if I'm posting in the wrong place!


Hi FXF,

It very much depends on the video's dialogue density, the client's style guide's complexity and whether I'm sent a dialogue list, transcript or something like that. As far as intense videos, I can usually do up to one video hour per work day with a high-quality transcript, about 40 minutes with an okay transcript (either not very accurate or containing lots of redundant information), and about 30 minutes with a poor transcript or no transcript at all. This includes segmentation and spotting.


Sorry Max another question springs to mind...In those times that you quoted (between 1 hour and 30 minutes according to the quality of the transcript) are you including the time for checking and corrections? I'm going to be adding French subs (which I have not seen) on to 10 hours of English speaking video and I'm also worried that because French is a much more "wordy" language than English, I'm going to be confronted with subs which are way too long and will have to be re-translated.
Thanks again for your help!


 
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