Accountant does not want to take responsibility for fines
Thread poster: Arlete Moraes

Arlete Moraes  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:57
Member (2006)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Jan 31, 2011

Dear colleagues,

I wonder if someone could help me. I have been working as a self-employed translator in Spain for about a year and a half. I registered myself with the Hacienda and then I hired the services of a "gestor".

Most of my clients are in the UK. However, I also have been working for one Spanish company since then. Before starting issuing invoices, I checked with the Agencia Tributaria whether they should include VAT/IRPF or not. I have been told that the invoices issued to foreign companies should not be issued with VAT/IRPF - only the ones issued to Spanish companies.
So, this is what I have been doing and my accountant is aware of it, as I have been sending him the invoices for the quarterly declarations.

Recently, a Spanish potential client asked me to send them a certificate called "Certificado de Contratistas y Subcontratistas". To my surprise, the Agencia Tributaria said that they could not provide me the certificate because I had not declared VAT since I started working.
My accountant said I do not have to declare VAT because most of my clients are in the UK. But because I needed the certificate, he agreed to the backdated declarations.

Now, I have just received 4 fines for not submitting the declarations within the respective deadlines. My accountant said is not his fault because he did not register me with the Hacienda and he does not have my "modelo 036/037". Moreover, he said that if I had not asked him to do the backdated declarations, I would have not received the fines.

I thought that my accountant would take responsibility for the declarations. And I think he should've asked me if I was registered for VAT, or am I wrong? I am really confused.

Please, any comments will me much appreciated.

Many thanks
Arlete


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Maria Lila  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:57
French to Spanish
+ ...
¿¿¿...??? Jan 31, 2011

Hola Arlete:

Perdona que te responda en español, pero tu caso me ha parecido alucinante. Hay un punto que no entiendo, si tu gestor no te dio de alta mediante el modelo 036/037, entonces cómo lo hizo (o te diste de alta tú misma, pero en cualquier caso para llevar tus asuntos, te lo tendría que haber solicitado). Es lo que te hacen rellenar cuándo te das de alta como autónomo en IAE.

Si la mayoría de tus clientes están en Reino Unido, tú tendrías que ser operador intracomunitario, que se solicita también mediante el modelo 036. Me parece que tendría que haberte informado de ello. Además, aunque no tengas actividad económica durante el trimestre, también tienes que presentar las declaraciones trimestrales de IVA.

Enfin, qué ha estado haciendo tu gestor, entonces.

Me parece que lo mejor es que guardes todos los emails que has intercambiado con él, las facturas por los servicios prestados, etc. y vayas a un abogado o ponte en contacto con ASETRAD, tienen departamento de asesoría jurídica.

Posiblemente de las multas no te libres, pero Hacienda te las puede reducir al comprobar la responsabilidad de tu gestor (es lo que le pasó a una compañera, cuyo gestor también "desgestionó" el asunto).

En mi caso, vista la desinformación que tienen algunas gestorías, he optado por llevar mis propios asuntos fiscales.

Ánimo y un saludo, María Lila.

[Edited at 2011-02-01 16:07 GMT]


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Monika Jakacka Márquez  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:57
Member (2006)
Polish to Spanish
+ ...

Moderator of this forum
Ayuda de la OCU Jan 31, 2011

Hola,

La verdad es que yo también me he quedado con la boca abierta al leer tu post, Arlete.

Una sugerencia, ¿has pensado contactar con la Organización de Consumidores y Usuarios (OCU)? Tienen servicio de asesoría gratuita en casos de problemas con la atención a los consumidores y puede que te den alguna pista sobre cómo actuar.

Encontrarás más información sobre la sede cercana a tu domicilio en la página de la OCU: http://www.ocu.org/

Saludos y ánimo,
M.


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:57
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Chapuza de gestor Jan 31, 2011

En efecto, me parece que el gestor ha metido la patita y debería asumir su parte de responsabilidad y asumir parte de las sanciones que te va a tocar pagar, sí o sí. Yo tuve un caso similar en el que demostráblemente mi gestor había metido la pata y llegamos a un acuerdo para que ellos sufragaran la mayor parte de la sanción.

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Elena Pérez  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 15:57
English to Spanish
+ ...
Menudo incompetente Jan 31, 2011

Arlete Moraes wrote:

Most of my clients are in the UK. However, I also have been working for one Spanish company since then. Before starting issuing invoices, I checked with the Agencia Tributaria whether they should include VAT/IRPF or not. I have been told that the invoices issued to foreign companies should not be issued with VAT/IRPF - only the ones issued to Spanish companies.
So, this is what I have been doing and my accountant is aware of it, as I have been sending him the invoices for the quarterly declarations.


Si le has pasado a tu gestor las facturas para hacer las declaraciones trimestrales, entiendo que también le has pasado las facturas de ese cliente español para el que sí cobras IVA. Da igual que tu gestor no tenga tu declaración censal, si estás cobrándole IVA a algún cliente (aunque solo sea uno), tienes la obligación de reflejarlo en la declaración trimestral de IVA y, si algún trimestre no haces ninguna factura con IVA, tienes que presentarla como «sin actividad». No sé de dónde ha sacado tu gestor lo de que no tienes que presentar las trimestrales de IVA porque la mayoría de tus clientes son extranjeros.


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nicoletta jamin  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:57
Member (2010)
German to Spanish
+ ...
soluciones Feb 1, 2011

Hi Arlete,

All comments you have received are precise. I would like to suggest that you use an "Asesor Fiscal" in stead of a "Gestor".

They will charge you a monthly fee, but take charge of everything: your application for the "operador intracomunitario", etc.

Good luck!


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Arlete Moraes  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:57
Member (2006)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Good point! Feb 1, 2011

Elena Pérez wrote:

Arlete Moraes wrote:

Most of my clients are in the UK. However, I also have been working for one Spanish company since then. Before starting issuing invoices, I checked with the Agencia Tributaria whether they should include VAT/IRPF or not. I have been told that the invoices issued to foreign companies should not be issued with VAT/IRPF - only the ones issued to Spanish companies.
So, this is what I have been doing and my accountant is aware of it, as I have been sending him the invoices for the quarterly declarations.


Si le has pasado a tu gestor las facturas para hacer las declaraciones trimestrales, entiendo que también le has pasado las facturas de ese cliente español para el que sí cobras IVA. Da igual que tu gestor no tenga tu declaración censal, si estás cobrándole IVA a algún cliente (aunque solo sea uno), tienes la obligación de reflejarlo en la declaración trimestral de IVA y, si algún trimestre no haces ninguna factura con IVA, tienes que presentarla como «sin actividad». No sé de dónde ha sacado tu gestor lo de que no tienes que presentar las trimestrales de IVA porque la mayoría de tus clientes son extranjeros.


Hi Helena,

Thank you for your input. That's what I thought: just for the fact that I have been working for a Spanish agency and I have been incluing VAT in the invoices is a reason to submit the VAT declarations. Thanks for confirming that.
Saludos


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Arlete Moraes  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:57
Member (2006)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Muchas gracias a todos! Feb 1, 2011

I would like to thank everyone for their comments.
I will try to get help from either ASETRAD or OCU, as suggested by Monika and Maria.

Have a nice week!

Saludos
Arlete


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John Rawlins  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:57
Spanish to English
+ ...
Not responsible Feb 1, 2011

It was explained to me a few years ago that the difference between an accountant and a gestor is that a gestor will not accept responsibility if his advice is proven to be wrong.

For that reason, I have always done my own tax returns.


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xxxIPtranslate
Brazil
English to Dutch
+ ...
Comforting Feb 1, 2011

I am sorry not to be able to add anything positive or informative to this thread; I was just reading through the posts and it caught my eye.

How comforting to see/hear/read that there are other countries (besides Brazil) where these things happen: I have had an accountant (the full package!) whom I paid a fortune every month and who did absolutely nothing (and you should read these words literally!). I found out after 1 year, with all the fines and back-payments that came with it. When I contacted my lawyer (whom, by the way, I am also paying a small fortune every month), he shrugged and said that that is what accountants do in Brazil and that one should always check what the accountant is doing (I am an engineer and a translator, not an accountant!)....Seems to be a universal disease!


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