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could you understand this cranky sentence fully?
Thread poster: gregpp
gregpp
English to Chinese
Jan 15, 2009

That that is,is;that that is not,is not;but that that is not,is not that that is,nor is that that is that that is not.
could we regard above sentence as a chinglish one?


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Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 12:41
Member (2005)
English to Russian
+ ...
Sure Jan 16, 2009

It makes perfect sense (to me).

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Jenny Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:41
Member (2006)
French to English
+ ...
A la Sartre, perhaps? Jan 16, 2009

Yes, it makes sense if you concentrate - but what a lot of gibberish!
It sounds a bit like that Sartresque piece we had to translate for the last Proz contest, about being and not being, being aware of being and not being aware of being, becoming aware of being, trying not to become aware of being, trying not to try not to be aware of being, and so on and on and on ...
Or again, like Donald Rumsfeld's famous dissertation on knowledge - knowing what we know, knowing what we don't know, not knowing what we don't know, and so on and on and on ...
Cheers,
Jenny


[Edited at 2009-01-16 21:49 GMT]


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 09:41
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
English rather than chinglish Jan 16, 2009

It's OK English if you want to take the time and trouble to decipher it. I daresay the author (possibly some famous philosopher - not my specialisation) thought he/she was being really clever, but personally it makes me yawn.

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Aniello Scognamiglio  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:41
English to German
+ ...
What a challenging sentence! Jan 17, 2009

gregpp wrote:

That that is,is;that that is not,is not;but that that is not,is not that that is,nor is that that is that that is not.
could we regard above sentence as a chinglish one?


Make sure you get not paid on a word basis, the sentence contains so many repetitions and fuzzy matches


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Wouter van Kampen
Thailand
Local time: 16:41
Danish to Dutch
+ ...
Very logical :) Jan 17, 2009

No, this ain't Chinglish. It's actually pretty basic logic

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xxxKhrystene
Australia
Polish to English
+ ...
Well you can't just 'skim' over it... Jan 17, 2009

...but I think that's the point.

All I can say is: Deep. Dude.


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LegalTransform  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:41
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
It's kind of like this passage in Chinese Jan 17, 2009

http://www.mmtaylor.net/Literacy_Book/DOCS/05.html



[Edited at 2009-01-17 14:46 GMT]


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Terry Gilman  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:41
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
I know this as a copyediting test Jan 17, 2009

My first encounter with it was 15-20 years ago - without punctuation - in a class on various aspects of editing. (And without any reference to "Chinglish," I might add.)

Editing is about much more than commas, of course. The teacher presented this sentence and another one with multiple "had's" without punctuation, plus a couple of other challenges, at the start as a short warmup and reminder to sweat the details.


And here's a little background courtesy of wikipedia (includes the "had" sentence).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That_that_is_is_that_that_is_not_is_not_is_that_it_it_is

Perhaps you knew this all along, but, in any case thanks for posting and bringing back a nice memory of a good class.

Terry

[Edited at 2009-01-17 17:03 GMT]


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Lily Bian
China
Local time: 17:41
English to Chinese
+ ...
similar language phenomenon Jan 19, 2009

Usually,such a jargon like sentence should have a context. And similar language phenomenon can be found in my mother tongue, too.(actually,chinese is tone language)
Here is a small funny story for you: A bean sprouts vendor managed to evolute his biz into a small store.In order to draw more customers, the owner of bean sprout store paid a Xiucai(a skillful writer) for a Biane(a tagline board hanging on the main lintel),by which both cultural atmosphere and sales will be boosted.the openning day came finally.After minutes of cracking, the owner unveiled the Biane saying 长长长长长长长.Dear members, do you know the right pronunciation? Are you feeling puzzle?
Achates

[Edited at 2009-01-19 08:34 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-01-19 08:51 GMT]


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Paul Dixon  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 07:41
Portuguese to English
+ ...
It makes perfect sense Jan 19, 2009

Yes, it makes perfect sense.

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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 09:41
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Thanks for sharing, Terry Jan 19, 2009

Terry Gilman wrote:

And here's a little background courtesy of wikipedia (includes the "had" sentence).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That_that_is_is_that_that_is_not_is_not_is_that_it_it_is



As an English teacher, snippets like this are always welcome.


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Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 12:41
Member (2005)
English to Russian
+ ...
Hrm Jan 19, 2009

Sheila Wilson wrote:
As an English teacher, snippets like this are always welcome.


Now there's some substandard grammar


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Jenny Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:41
Member (2006)
French to English
+ ...
"Strickly" speaking ... Jan 20, 2009

Mikhail Kropotov wrote:

Sheila Wilson wrote:
As an English teacher, snippets like this are always welcome.


Now there's some substandard grammar


Mmm. Strictly speaking, I suppose it should be:

"As an English teacher, I always welcome such snippets" - or "To me as an English teacher, snippets like this are always welcome", because it's not the snippets that are an English teacher, but Sheila. (Ref: Fowler's Modern English Usage).

Jenny.


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Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 10:41
English to Croatian
+ ...
Language in philosophy Jan 20, 2009

This resembles a sentence pattern philosophers would often use to illustrate their complex thoughts.

They are certainly acceptable in philosophy, but linguists would regard it ungrammatical and cranky. To linguists, language is an economic entity, and one must distribute and arrange words economically( tendencies in natural language).

economically = not loading up unnecessary structures/words in speech



[Edited at 2009-01-20 10:51 GMT]


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