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Help: native US-english or not?
Thread poster: MikeMk
MikeMk
Local time: 14:32
May 11, 2009

I am really need to know is my book translator US native or not, becaus I have some doubt:


The term phase state (or simply phase) encompasses a number of widely known dissociative phenomena, many of which are referred to by various terms, such as astral or out-of-body travel. This concept also includes the more pragmatic term lucid dreaming, but far from always in the sense and form implied by that expression. Hence, the term phase has been introduced in order to make it possible to study phenomena that are beyond habitual associations and (often unfair) stereotypes. The term out-of-body travel is accurate to the extent that this is just the sensation felt by a person experiencing this phenomenon.
A phase has two primary attributes: a person has full conscious awareness, as well as the understanding that he is outside his usual physical body. At the same time, the degree to which a person perceives surrounding space affects all of the sensations that he feels, which are often in a higher form than in wakefulness, something difficult to imagine without having been experienced. And so, it is not without reason that this practice is considered to be a higher state of self-hypnosis or meditation, and is often referred to under different names as the highest possible human achievement in various religious and mystical movements (yoga, Buddhism, etc.).
In essence, this is a little-studied state of mind in which one is unable to control and feel his physical body. Instead, his space perception is filled with realistic phantom experiences.
Interesting Fact!
Sensations in the phase state can be so realistic that a person unintentionally falling in one often believes that he is still in his physical body, and that everything going on around him is reality. This occurs most often at night or in the morning.
It is believed that up to one-fourth of the human population has encountered this phenomenon. However, if one accounts for variations and different degrees of intensity of the state, nearly everyone has encountered it in one way or another. First, many do not notice that they were in the phase when they did something, especially when they are waking up. Second, many do not assign any significance to the occurrence of a phase that isn't deep, as such phases are not as jolting as deep states. As a result, this is an extremely common phenomenon that all can experience. One only needs to act in a correct and conscious fashion in order to achieve it.


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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:32
Member (2000)
Russian to English
+ ...
I'd say the translator is a native English speaker May 11, 2009

Having read the text, I cannot fault the English. I say that as a native speaker of English, though UK English, not US. But in this sort of text, there is not likely to be any significant difference between them.
As to whether the translation is good style, whether it is as lucid as it might be, whether it is a good translation of the original text, I can't say.


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Hepburn  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 13:32
English to French
+ ...
English May 11, 2009

I agree with Jack.

Claudette (very cheeky as neither Russian nor English !)

[Edited at 2009-05-11 22:30 GMT]


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Kathryn Sanderson  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:32
French to English
I agree with Mike, too May 11, 2009

..and I'm a native US speaker.

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James McVay  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:32
Russian to English
+ ...
Native English May 11, 2009

I agree with Jack, too. I looked specifically for the kinds of mistakes that even highly proficient non-English natives sometimes make, namely use of the definite and indefinite articles, verb tenses, word order . . . things of that sort. I didn't see any.

Like Jack, I couldn't possible vouch for the accuracy of the translation or the use of correct terminology, but it reads like a native speaker of English wrote it.


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Rod Walters  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 21:32
Japanese to English
Room for doubt May 12, 2009

I was beginning to think it was a native English speaker, but the last paragraph gave me some slight doubt.

"First, many do not notice that they were in the phase when they did something, especially when they are waking up (1). Second, many do not assign any significance to the occurrence of a phase that isn't deep, as such phases are not as jolting as deep states. As a result, this is an extremely common phenomenon that all can experience (2). One only needs to act in a correct and conscious fashion in order to achieve it. (3)"

(1) I suspect this should be "when they are awake". This may be inattention on the part of a native speaker, or it may be a non-native mistake.

(2) This is most infelicitous English, which seems rather typical of a highly fluent non-native. "that anybody might experience" or some such would surely be better. However, again, it may just be inattention.

(3) I suspect that the original may be less than clear, but this sentence seems to be completely at odds with the rest of the quoted piece. This could indicate an unclear original text, lack of familiarity with the source language, or lack of capability in the target language.

So I think there's room for doubt. Still, it's generally a highly competent piece of English writing.





[Edited at 2009-05-12 00:28 GMT]


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Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 15:32
Member (2005)
English to Russian
+ ...
Missing the point in #1 May 12, 2009

Rod Walters wrote:
"First, many do not notice that they were in the phase when they did something, especially when they are waking up (1).

(1) I suspect this should be "when they are awake". This may be inattention on the part of a native speaker, or it may be a non-native mistake.


[Edited at 2009-05-12 00:28 GMT]


On the contrary, I'm certain the translator meant what they wrote: "when they ARE WAKING UP," i.e. when passing from the state of sleep to the state of wakefulness.

Also, I think your overall assessment gives the asker the wrong impression. Producing good, clear and easy to understand writing and writing in your own language are two very different things. Although some portions of this text could be edited and improved, as you pointed out, the author is clearly a native speaker of English.


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Tina Vonhof  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 05:32
Member (2006)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Agree May 12, 2009

I agree with Jack and Mikhail. The translator is a native English speaker. The source text is not an easy one. As a first draft, the translation is pretty good - it just needs a little more editing.

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Jill Ananyi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:32
Spanish to English
+ ...
Native May 12, 2009

I agree that this sounds like a native speaker. As a teacher of translation, I can tell you that a lot of native speakers are capable of getting things more tangled up than that last paragraph. This is indeed a difficult text — and I say this without even seeing the original. The last paragraph does look more like a draft than a finished product.

By the way, I hope that there is something in the original (quotes, italics, etc.) to indicate which words are being discussed as terms. That would certainly make it easier to understand.


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MikeMk
Local time: 14:32
TOPIC STARTER
so hi is native... May 12, 2009

Thanks to all!

Translator says that this quote of text is not proved by him yet(rough copy), so hi should be native:

I have 10 opinions:

6 – hi is native(5 of them english native(US,AU,CA))
4 – hi is not native(only one of them from UK)


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Terry Richards
France
Local time: 13:32
French to English
+ ...
one-fourth? May 12, 2009

In general it seems like very good English but the use of "one-fourth" makes me wonder. I never met a US or UK native that wouldn't say "a quarter".

However, it could just be a case of a tired translator who got a bit "infected" by the source language, a situation I'm sure we can all relate to!

If I had to bet money, I would bet on a native speaker but there is room for some doubt. If the translator is not a native, they are **** good!

Terry.


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Mykhailo Voloshko  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 14:32
Member (2008)
English to Russian
+ ...
off/on-top: he May 12, 2009

Could any native speaker explain why the person is he. We demand from our students such clumsy variants as "he/she", "he or she", "they" (due to new trends in English), while the native speakers continue using "he".

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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:32
Member (2000)
Russian to English
+ ...
He, she, it May 12, 2009

Many (probably most) native speakers are unconcerned with political correctness, and think it unnecessarily complicated and unnatural sounding not to use a simple "he" in such cases as this. The old grammatical rule used to be "man embraces woman", and it is more normal for most people, particularly in spoken English, to keep to this.
Another modern oddity is to use plural forms after a singular subject, e.g. "The company have just issued their annual report". This is more common in UK English than US, I believe, but personally I don't like it.


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Mykhailo Voloshko  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 14:32
Member (2008)
English to Russian
+ ...
Thank you! May 12, 2009

Jack,

Thank you for explanation.
I'll stop torturing my students

Best wishes,
Mykhailo


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Marie-Hélène Hayles  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:32
Italian to English
+ ...
Native May 12, 2009

I'm with Jack & co - there's no doubt the translator is a native English speaker. I also agree with Mikhail that "when they are waking up" is almost certainly the correct translation of the original, as it makes perfect sense in this context.

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