Pages in topic:   [1 2] >
Do I need another period after "..." to end a sentence?
Thread poster: lbone

lbone  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 23:33
English to Chinese
+ ...
Apr 29, 2011

I have the following sentence within a paragraph:

The description is ended with "...".

Do I need to keep the final period to end this sentence?

I think I need it. But I am not quite sure.

Thank you!

[Edited at 2011-04-29 12:15 GMT]


 

Tomoyuki Kono  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:33
Member (2010)
English to Japanese
+ ...
It depends Apr 29, 2011

The Chicago Manual of Style (15th ed.) has a fairly long section (§11.51–11.65) on ellipses. There are three main methods: the three-dot method, the three-or-four-dot method and the rigorous method.

What system to use and how to apply it depends on the style of your document. (I assume that the document is in English.) I cannot tell you how you should punctuate the sentence without seeing the full sentence.

I believe CMS is available online so you might want to have
... See more
The Chicago Manual of Style (15th ed.) has a fairly long section (§11.51–11.65) on ellipses. There are three main methods: the three-dot method, the three-or-four-dot method and the rigorous method.

What system to use and how to apply it depends on the style of your document. (I assume that the document is in English.) I cannot tell you how you should punctuate the sentence without seeing the full sentence.

I believe CMS is available online so you might want to have a look at it.
Collapse


 

B D Finch  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 17:33
Member (2006)
French to English
+ ...
Yes Apr 29, 2011

The ellipsis indicates that one or more words have been omitted. It doesn't follow that you omit the punctuation. As an ellipsis is supposed to be preceded and followed by a space, I suppose one could even argue that a space can only be visible if there is something after it!
An exception would be if the ellipsis were used to indicate an indeterminately long string of words that was omitted, where a full stop would spoil the effect.

"Ellipses

Three points that de
... See more
The ellipsis indicates that one or more words have been omitted. It doesn't follow that you omit the punctuation. As an ellipsis is supposed to be preceded and followed by a space, I suppose one could even argue that a space can only be visible if there is something after it!
An exception would be if the ellipsis were used to indicate an indeterminately long string of words that was omitted, where a full stop would spoil the effect.

"Ellipses

Three points that denote missing words from quoted matter. There should be a space before and after the three dots, but do not use square brackets:
‘This morning’s lecture … was very interesting.’"
http://www.ox.ac.uk/branding_toolkit/writing_and_style_guide/punctuation.html


BDF
Collapse


 

lbone  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 23:33
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The last sentence of a long paragraph Apr 29, 2011

Thank you Tomoyuki and BDF!

At first I think I need to make the situation clearer. I am editing some English manuals written by a Chinese web developer on his web-based products (some web-based components). Obviously these manuals are in English.

The ellipsis is within double quotes. If the text in a description field has more than, for example, 100 characters, and it needs to be shown on some part of the site that has a space of no more than 100 characters, this descr
... See more
Thank you Tomoyuki and BDF!

At first I think I need to make the situation clearer. I am editing some English manuals written by a Chinese web developer on his web-based products (some web-based components). Obviously these manuals are in English.

The ellipsis is within double quotes. If the text in a description field has more than, for example, 100 characters, and it needs to be shown on some part of the site that has a space of no more than 100 characters, this description will need to be shortened to fit the space limitation, and the ellipsis "..." will be added to the end to show something has been omitted. For example:

At first I think I need to make the situation clearer. I am editing some English...


The sentence I mentioned is used to describe this:

The description is ended with "...".

Tomoyuki Kono wrote:

The Chicago Manual of Style (15th ed.) has a fairly long section (§11.51–11.65) on ellipses. There are three main methods: the three-dot method, the three-or-four-dot method and the rigorous method.

What system to use and how to apply it depends on the style of your document. (I assume that the document is in English.) I cannot tell you how you should punctuate the sentence without seeing the full sentence.

I believe CMS is available online so you might want to have a look at it.


I will try to find this manual and check the manual if I can find it.

This sentence is (and should) be a normal and full sentence within a paragraph. Currently it is the last sentence of a normal paragraph. If the usage is different if it is in the middle of a paragraph (there are still sentences after it), I would also be interested to know it.

B D Finch wrote:

The ellipsis indicates that one or more words have been omitted. It doesn't follow that you omit the punctuation. As an ellipsis is supposed to be preceded and followed by a space, I suppose one could even argue that a space can only be visible if there is something after it!
An exception would be if the ellipsis were used to indicate an indeterminately long string of words that was omitted, where a full stop would spoil the effect.

"Ellipses

Three points that denote missing words from quoted matter. There should be a space before and after the three dots, but do not use square brackets:
‘This morning’s lecture … was very interesting.’"
http://www.ox.ac.uk/branding_toolkit/writing_and_style_guide/punctuation.html

BDF


Thank you, but I think my situation is different from what you quoted. The ellipsis itself (within double quotes) in my sentence is part of this sentence. It is something to be described by this sentence. It is not used to indicate words omitted from this sentence.

I am interested in how to end a "normal" sentence when the last part of the sentence is "..." (with the double quotes).

[Edited at 2011-04-29 13:22 GMT]
Collapse


 

LegalTranslatr2  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:33
Portuguese to English
+ ...
Ellipsis Apr 29, 2011

I think in your particular example, you do need the final period because the ellipsis in this case is either a placeholder: The description is ended with "__". (Better: The description ends with "__".)
Or it is a direct quote. The description actually does end with "...".
In other words, in this particular example the ellipsis does not function as punctuation.

In other cases, the ellipsis can have numerous "translations". Sometimes (depending on the context) you can re
... See more
I think in your particular example, you do need the final period because the ellipsis in this case is either a placeholder: The description is ended with "__". (Better: The description ends with "__".)
Or it is a direct quote. The description actually does end with "...".
In other words, in this particular example the ellipsis does not function as punctuation.

In other cases, the ellipsis can have numerous "translations". Sometimes (depending on the context) you can replace it with etc. to avoid the problem altogether.

— Oui, merci, répond-elle. Mais...
"Yes, thanks," she responds. "But—"

J'aime les animaux domestiques (les chiens, les chats...)
I like domestic animals (dogs, cats, etc.).


lbone wrote:

I have the following sentence within a paragraph:

The description is ended with "...".

Do I need to keep the final period to end this sentence?

I think I need it. But I am not quite sure.

Thank you!

[Edited at 2011-04-29 12:15 GMT]
Collapse


 

B D Finch  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 17:33
Member (2006)
French to English
+ ...
Avoid using ellipsis within double quotes Apr 29, 2011

lbone wrote:

At first I think I need to make the situation clearer. I am editing some English manuals written by a Chinese web developer on his web-based products (some web-based components). Obviously these manuals are in English.

The ellipsis is within double quotes. If the text in a description field has more than, for example, 100 characters, and it needs to be shown on some part of the site that has a space of no more than 100 characters, this description will need to be shortened to fit the space limitation, and the ellipsis "..." will be added to the end to show something has been omitted. ...

... I think my situation is different from what you quoted. The ellipsis itself (within double quotes) in my sentence is part of this sentence. It is something to be described by this sentence. It is not used to indicate words omitted from this sentence.


I believe that the use you describe of an ellipsis within double quotes is wrong and the ellipsis should not be within double quotes any more than it should be within brackets. If the shortening of the description is done by précis of the original description then adding an ellipsis at all would be inappropriate. If it is done by chopping off the end of the description, then the ellipsis should be used at the end followed by a full stop.

BDF


 

lbone  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 23:33
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Apr 29, 2011

Thank you Jeff. I have made a check and changed "is ended with" to "ends with" and will keep the ending period.

Also thank you BDF for the new comments, though I couldn't understand why ellipsis should not be enclosed by double quotes but can by brackets. The choices of enclosing marks are often sensitive in technical documents, so I will not change the double quotes to brackets. Square brackets are usually technically meaningful in IT technical documents and have special uses in th
... See more
Thank you Jeff. I have made a check and changed "is ended with" to "ends with" and will keep the ending period.

Also thank you BDF for the new comments, though I couldn't understand why ellipsis should not be enclosed by double quotes but can by brackets. The choices of enclosing marks are often sensitive in technical documents, so I will not change the double quotes to brackets. Square brackets are usually technically meaningful in IT technical documents and have special uses in this manual. Double quotes are safe for me to quote things in the manual.

Adding three dots at the end of a text chopped at end is a convention in IT.

[Edited at 2011-04-30 02:54 GMT]
Collapse


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:33
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Workaround Apr 29, 2011

Hi lbone,
I understand the situation, and I suggest to modify the sentence, not only to avoid the question of whether you need one more period at the end, but to get a better flow of the sentence.
Perhaps the sentence could be changed to look something like this:
If the description is too long, then it is automatically shortened, and "..." is added to the end.
In other words, instead of ends with "...", use "..." is added to the end.
This way the quote
... See more
Hi lbone,
I understand the situation, and I suggest to modify the sentence, not only to avoid the question of whether you need one more period at the end, but to get a better flow of the sentence.
Perhaps the sentence could be changed to look something like this:
If the description is too long, then it is automatically shortened, and "..." is added to the end.
In other words, instead of ends with "...", use "..." is added to the end.
This way the quoted ellipsis will be in the middle of the sentence.
Katalin

[Edited at 2011-04-29 22:34 GMT]
Collapse


 

B D Finch  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 17:33
Member (2006)
French to English
+ ...
Misunderstanding Apr 30, 2011

lbone wrote:

Also thank you BDF for the new comments, though I couldn't understand why ellipsis should not be enclosed by double quotes but can by brackets.


I actually wrote that it should not be enclosed by either double quotes or brackets! To quote myself:

"... the ellipsis should not be within double quotes any more than it should be within brackets."

BDF


 

lbone  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 23:33
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Apr 30, 2011

B D Finch wrote:

lbone wrote:

Also thank you BDF for the new comments, though I couldn't understand why ellipsis should not be enclosed by double quotes but can by brackets.


I actually wrote that it should not be enclosed by either double quotes or brackets! To quote myself:

"... the ellipsis should not be within double quotes any more than it should be within brackets."

BDF


I got it. Thank you.

Katalin:
Hi lbone,
I understand the situation, and I suggest to modify the sentence, not only to avoid the question of whether you need one more period at the end, but to get a better flow of the sentence.
Perhaps the sentence could be changed to look something like this:
If the description is too long, then it is automatically shortened, and "..." is added to the end.
In other words, instead of ends with "...", use "..." is added to the end.
This way the quoted ellipsis will be in the middle of the sentence.


Also thank you Katalin for the suggestion.

[Edited at 2011-04-30 09:27 GMT]


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:33
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
I think he has to enclose it, because it is a different situation Apr 30, 2011

B D Finch wrote:

lbone wrote:

Also thank you BDF for the new comments, though I couldn't understand why ellipsis should not be enclosed by double quotes but can by brackets.


I actually wrote that it should not be enclosed by either double quotes or brackets! To quote myself:

"... the ellipsis should not be within double quotes any more than it should be within brackets."

BDF


Yes, in general, but I think this is a different situation.
He has a sentence that explains the use of the ellipsis itself, so I think he has to enclose it within something, as the sentence is referring to, pointing to the ellipsis as a symbol, a sign and explains its meaning, and the ellipsis happens to be at the end of the sentence. For example, look at these sentences where a string enclosed by quotation marks is at the end of the sentence (I made them up):

If you want to find all entries starting with "horse", then the search string should be "horse*". I think it is clear that we need a period here.

When you are addressing a formal letter to a man, it is best to use his last name, preceded by "Mr." - this is another example where it is unclear whether we need to use an additional period after the closing quotation mark. (I am not sure about the answer.)

His sentence is something like this:
Long descriptions are truncated and terminated by "..."

So, the question was whether we need to use a period after the closing parenthesis in this very sentence above.

I don't think your comment about not enclosing it applies here, as in that case the sentence would look like this:
Long descriptions are truncated and terminated by ...
This would mean this sentence itself is truncated and some words were omitted from the end, or am I mistaken?

Katalin


 

Klementina Shahini
United States
Local time: 11:33
Member (2009)
English to Albanian
+ ...
Rules to remember May 1, 2011

1. When placing an ellipsis in the middle of a quotation to indicate the omission of material, use three points with spaces before and after the ellipsis.
2. When placing an ellipsis at the end of a quotation to indicate the omission of material, use four points -- a three-point ellipsis and a period. The ellipsis should follow a blank space.

3. When combining a fully quoted sentence with a partially quoted sentence, or with a second, but nonconsecutive quoted sentence, pl
... See more
1. When placing an ellipsis in the middle of a quotation to indicate the omission of material, use three points with spaces before and after the ellipsis.
2. When placing an ellipsis at the end of a quotation to indicate the omission of material, use four points -- a three-point ellipsis and a period. The ellipsis should follow a blank space.

3. When combining a fully quoted sentence with a partially quoted sentence, or with a second, but nonconsecutive quoted sentence, place a period at the end of the fully quoted sentence, followed by a space, an ellipsis, another space, and the remainder of the quoted material. Do not place a space before a period at the end of a fully quoted sentence.
Collapse


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:33
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
OK, so which of these rules applies here? May 1, 2011

Klemi wrote:

1. When placing an ellipsis in the middle of a quotation to indicate the omission of material, use three points with spaces before and after the ellipsis.
2. When placing an ellipsis at the end of a quotation to indicate the omission of material, use four points -- a three-point ellipsis and a period. The ellipsis should follow a blank space.

3. When combining a fully quoted sentence with a partially quoted sentence, or with a second, but nonconsecutive quoted sentence, place a period at the end of the fully quoted sentence, followed by a space, an ellipsis, another space, and the remainder of the quoted material. Do not place a space before a period at the end of a fully quoted sentence.


OK, but I must admit, I am still not sure which of these three rules applies to the case in question where the only thing in the quotation is the ellipsis itself.
Which version is correct?
A. Long descriptions are truncated and terminated by "..."
B. Long descriptions are truncated and terminated by "...".
C. Long descriptions are truncated and terminated by " ... "
D. Long descriptions are truncated and terminated by " ... ".
E. Long descriptions are truncated and terminated by " ...."
F. Long descriptions are truncated and terminated by " ... ."
G. Long descriptions are truncated and terminated by "... ."
H. Something else????

I personally think versions C, D, E, F, and G cannot be correct in this case, because if we write the sentence like that, it would mean something different from what is actually happening when the system truncates long descriptions.

Katalin


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:33
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
The so called "Logical punctuation" may be the answer May 17, 2011

After reading this article, I came back to this topic:
http://www.proz.com/translation-news/?p=25729

In light of this, I think the solution is B (from my above list):

B. Long descriptions are truncated and terminated by "...".

Katalin


 

Ambrose Li  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 11:33
Member (2011)
Chinese to English
+ ...
What Bringhurst says May 17, 2011

I am not really a big fan of Bringhurst’s The Elements of Typographic Style, but it is held in high regard by many so perhaps it is worth quoting him for some quasi-authoritative opinion:

In English (but usually not in French), when the ellipsis occurs at the end of a sentence, a fourth dot, the period, is added and the space at the beginning of the ellipsis disappears…. When the ellipsis combines with a comma, exclamation mark or question mark, the same typog... See more
I am not really a big fan of Bringhurst’s The Elements of Typographic Style, but it is held in high regard by many so perhaps it is worth quoting him for some quasi-authoritative opinion:

In English (but usually not in French), when the ellipsis occurs at the end of a sentence, a fourth dot, the period, is added and the space at the beginning of the ellipsis disappears…. When the ellipsis combines with a comma, exclamation mark or question mark, the same typographic principle applies. Otherwise, a word space is required fore and aft.

(Bringhurst, Robert. The Elements of Typographic Style, 3rd ed. (Vancouver: Hartley & Marks, 2004), pp. 82–83)

That would mean, according to one North American quasi-authoritative source (which some in the graphic design field would consider authoritative), the correct answer is “H”.

[Edited at 2011-05-17 15:15 GMT]
Collapse


 
Pages in topic:   [1 2] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Do I need another period after "..." to end a sentence?

Advanced search







Protemos translation business management system
Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!

The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.

More info »
Wordfast Pro
Translation Memory Software for Any Platform

Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users! Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search