Shouldn't "repetitions"be taken out of the text before it is submitted for translation?
Thread poster: LilianNekipelov

LilianNekipelov  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:54
Russian to English
+ ...
Jun 29, 2014

Many agencies require discounts for "repetitions", which term has become a new tool of abuse. They just show you some numbers--alleged repetitions whatever that may mean in translation, and ask for discounts. Shouldn't all the alleged "repetitions" be taken about of the text, before you get it--just marked with some reference numbers, or at least really darkened so you almost cannot see them--highlighted in a dark color? Sometimes you have to read 10 pages of text to get paid for two--this is insane.

[Edited at 2014-06-29 12:17 GMT]


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BaGiao
Vietnam
Local time: 08:54
English to Vietnamese
Brilliant idea Jun 29, 2014

I think this is a good counter to repetition discounts and it should be made compulsory practice to translators and agencies.

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Paulo Eduardo - Pro Knowledge  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 22:54
Member (2008)
Portuguese to English
+ ...
Shouldn't "repetitions"be taken out of the text before it is submitted for translation? Jun 29, 2014

How can you understand the context if the repetitions (connectors) are not there?

[Edited at 2014-06-29 13:25 GMT]


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Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 03:54
English to Polish
+ ...
Clarity Jun 29, 2014

There needs to be some clarity as to that they really are removed from the service to be rendered rather than merely removed as a remunerable item, sure.

On the other hand, the the nobility of penny-pinching shenanigans with repetitions is already questionable enough that it's quite strange to talk about professional standards in connection with the treatment of repetitions.

Notably, removing them from the scope of the assignment — and thus from review and integration by the translator — essentially amounts to machine translation.

On the other hand, leaving them to editors or inhouse translators poses the threat of artificial fragmentation of a text between two different linguists with different writing styles and views of equivalence.

Bottom line: Agencies should just 'stoop' to negotiate a proportional discount (reduction in price, where calling it a discount could attract the uwelcome attention of tax authorities) with their translators on account that there is less work to do. And by all means, translators co-operate. There is, after all, less work to be done. Translators don't have a sacred right to charge for copy-pasta the same as for actually translating.

Plus, removing individual sentences (or some other segments) from an otherwise congruous text may be unprofessional and even if it is not, then it's definitely not 'highly professional' but more in the realm of 'tolerable, with pain'.

Paulo Eduardo - Pro Knowledge wrote:

How can you understand the context if the repetitions (connectors) are not there?

[Edited at 2014-06-29 13:25 GMT]


That's another problem. Repetitions form part of the context and need to be analysed by the translating linguist regardless of the application of a piecemeal rate (which linguists understand to be a pars pro toto, but monolingual business execs and IT wizards don't necessarily). This is another dent in the nobility of the concept.

[Edited at 2014-06-29 13:34 GMT]


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Kirsten Bodart  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:54
Dutch to English
+ ...
I would propose that Jun 29, 2014

if I'm not paid for them.

I mean, you can't expect any good service to be done for free, can you, so, you don't pay me for the repetitions, don't expect them to be read either. If they look a little strange in between the text I have translated at the end of it, you shouldn't complain either. If you pay a painter no fee for painting your doorframe when he's doing you façade, then don't expect it to be done for free either. Full stop.

Fortunately I don't have any clients who propose not to pay me at all for those.

It's true, they do take less work, but only if the text is well-written, otherwise they sometimes don't.

But indeed, IT people don't reckon with that.


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LilianNekipelov  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:54
Russian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Highlighted, then, perhaps Jun 29, 2014

Paulo Eduardo - Pro Knowledge wrote:

How can you understand the context if the repetitions (connectors) are not there?

[Edited at 2014-06-29 13:25 GMT]

so you can still read the words if you need them for the context.


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neilmac  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 03:54
Spanish to English
+ ...
Too much hassle Jun 29, 2014

Why waste time on these things? I just tell chiselling agencies (it's rarely, if ever, regular, direct clients) seeking discounts for reps to take their bamboozling sharp practices elsewhere.

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Orrin Cummins  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 10:54
Japanese to English
+ ...
... Jun 29, 2014

The only repetitions worth discounting are 100% matches. Anything else is highway robbery.

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Arturo Delgado  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:54
English to Spanish
It's indeed a robbery Jun 30, 2014

When we go to the dentist because we have cavities in two different teeth, can we ask for a discount for "repetition"?

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Tina Vonhof  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 19:54
Member (2006)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Right on Jul 2, 2014

Paulo Eduardo - Pro Knowledge wrote:

How can you understand the context if the repetitions (connectors) are not there?
[Edited at 2014-06-29 13:25 GMT]


True, you need all the words to understand the context and you have to type them in as well but then you should also get paid for them!


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Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:54
English to German
+ ...
Don't get hoodwinked! Jul 2, 2014

Tina Vonhof wrote:

Paulo Eduardo - Pro Knowledge wrote:

How can you understand the context if the repetitions (connectors) are not there?
[Edited at 2014-06-29 13:25 GMT]


True, you need all the words to understand the context and you have to type them in as well but then you should also get paid for them!


You should get paid for the quality product you deliver. In my case, that usually means a cohesive text that had to be understood and translated in a way that shows excellent human touch. No MT or CAT tool will do that automatically, no matter how many different degrees of fuzzy and exact repetitions the CAT tool can analyze and "come up with". CAT tools can help but they are new technologies (relatively speaking) and they don't come for free and there is a huge industry out there making lots of money off them. And we should use them to make less money after we paid for them (each and every one of us) and learned how to use them?! LOL.

Otherwise, Google Translate will do for free. It doesn't cost anything. Godspeed!

[Edited at 2014-07-02 06:56 GMT]


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Lincoln Hui  Identity Verified
Hong Kong
Local time: 09:54
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
Repetitions Jul 2, 2014

Tina Vonhof wrote:

Paulo Eduardo - Pro Knowledge wrote:

How can you understand the context if the repetitions (connectors) are not there?
[Edited at 2014-06-29 13:25 GMT]


True, you need all the words to understand the context and you have to type them in as well but then you should also get paid for them!

If you're using a CAT Tool, you don't type in repetitions.


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Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:54
English to German
+ ...
It's not about who or what types the words Jul 2, 2014

Lincoln Hui wrote:

Tina Vonhof wrote:

Paulo Eduardo - Pro Knowledge wrote:

How can you understand the context if the repetitions (connectors) are not there?
[Edited at 2014-06-29 13:25 GMT]


True, you need all the words to understand the context and you have to type them in as well but then you should also get paid for them!

If you're using a CAT Tool, you don't type in repetitions.


It's not about how you carry out your translation or how many repeated words you let your CAT tool type for you. It's about putting together a quality translation for the client. If you can get it done faster, even better. Charge more.
But repetitions in the source text don't necessarily equate to the same words used/typed in the target text. Just because a machine will type the same word over and over doesn't mean that that's what you need/want to use or that you don't charge for it or charge less.
You've got to check, change and make sure your text is excellent and (often) shows great writing style.
We need to get away from finding more and more reasons to charge less! Most of the time these reasons are hogwash.

My thoughts

B

[Edited at 2014-07-02 07:20 GMT]


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Radian Yazynin  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:54
Member (2004)
English to Russian
+ ...
No wonder that Jul 2, 2014

apart from pure reps there are perfect matches and similar definitions all of which (by the way) don't always guarantee a perfect match either! So our participation in their verification is reasonable.

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George Hopkins
Local time: 03:54
Swedish to English
Numbers and codswallop Jul 3, 2014

Years ago an agency I was working for said they wouldn't pay for "digits", only words. Eg, 10.7, which in the source language, Swedish, is 10,7.
I replied, OK, I'll simply leave them out in my translation and you can put them in again as you see fit.

We came to an amicable agreement.


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Shouldn't "repetitions"be taken out of the text before it is submitted for translation?

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