| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Will technology replace the Job of a translator? Thread poster: Annasuno
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| Some thoughts on machine translations | Jul 12, 2015 |
Chris S wrote:
I just typed this Swedish into Google Translate: Hur fan kan vi veta vad som kommer att hända om tio år?
And it was translated instantly and perfectly into English as: How the hell can we know what will happen in ten years?
Machines can already translate a lot of stuff perfectly adequately.
Your example contains a very frequently used expression (How the ...) and phrase (what will happen in ... years).
The machine feeds off certain codes/algorithms and data (possible language constructs) that enable it to spit out seemingly (it "looks" English) and sometimes correct text. Can a layman who doesn't speak the target language be sure the translation is correct? No.
I hope you agree that machines aren't thinking like humans.
The German translation for your phrase by that machine is:
Wie zum Teufel können wir wissen, was in zehn Jahren? - which is equal to: How the hell do we know what in ten years? It's missing the verbal part in the subordinate question.
I also went from English to German and got this:
Wie zum Teufel wissen wir, was in 10 Jahren passieren? = How the hell do we know, what happen in 10 years? It's missing the "will (=wird)" part at the end of the German question, or, since this is possible in German, the verb passieren would have to be rendered as "passiert" to be correct.
I am not so worried about the machines themselves. I rather worry about correct bi-lingual phrases being fed into databases, although I must say, a new text is always just that: a new text. The machine will never be able to be like a translator tackling a new text with his/her mind and knowledge.
[Edited at 2015-07-12 21:33 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-07-13 05:44 GMT]
| | | | Neirda 
China
Local time: 10:26
Chinese to French
+ ...
| Missing data | Jul 12, 2015 |
Merab Dekano wrote:
The "bulk" of the translation work is human and there is nothing to compel us to think that it will change any time soon.
Care to share your numbers?
[Edited at 2015-07-12 23:11 GMT]
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 22:26
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| It doesn't always work... | Jul 13, 2015 |
...and you never know when, if and where a mistranslation will occur.
Therefore, it's really only useful when you already know the language and don't need it.
Dutch: 'Mocht u vragen hebben, dan kunt u uiteraard contact opnemen met Michael.'
GT: 'Should you have any questions, please do not contact Michael.'
Real meaning = you can contact Michael
French: Investir en bon père de famille
MT: Invest in a good fat... See more ...and you never know when, if and where a mistranslation will occur.
Therefore, it's really only useful when you already know the language and don't need it.
Dutch: 'Mocht u vragen hebben, dan kunt u uiteraard contact opnemen met Michael.'
GT: 'Should you have any questions, please do not contact Michael.'
Real meaning = you can contact Michael
French: Investir en bon père de famille
MT: Invest in a good father.
Real meaning = with due diligence, properly, in a responsible manner, etc.
Chris S wrote:
I just typed this Swedish into Google Translate: Hur fan kan vi veta vad som kommer att hända om tio år?
And it was translated instantly and perfectly into English as: How the hell can we know what will happen in ten years?
Machines can already translate a lot of stuff perfectly adequately. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Radian Yazynin
Local time: 05:26
Member (2004)
English to Russian
+ ...
| So it looks like a car | Jul 13, 2015 |
controlled by autopilot function, which won't be able to totally control traffic accidents caused by human "offbeat approach"
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| Sums it up perfectly | Jul 13, 2015 |
Radian Yazynin wrote: So it looks like a car controlled by autopilot function, which won't be able to totally control traffic accidents caused by human "offbeat approach"
May I quote you?
BTW there is a Danish powwow on September 4 about machine translation - we are having our normal powwow the next day!
MT is not going to go away, and we will have to learn to work with it and around it. But it will not replace human translators for several generations at least.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:26
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Christine Andersen wrote:
.... there is a Danish powwow on September 4 about machine translation...
Great - I'll send my computer to this event.
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Pierret Adrien wrote: Merab Dekano wrote:
The "bulk" of the translation work is human and there is nothing to compel us to think that it will change any time soon. Care to share your numbers? [Edited at 2015-07-12 23:11 GMT]
Have not had time to investigate or prepare slides on this matter, but it's very widely known fact. If experts estimate MT translation market size to be $250 million in 2014, it surely a fraction of the total market of $30 billion or so:
https://www.taus.net/think-tank/news/press-release/size-machine-translation-market-is-250-million-taus-publishes-new-market-report
Hey, this is just a random link, you can look it up yourself if proper and if really interested in tiny little details. Otherwise, let's just agree with the fact that MT translation market share really is a fraction of what we humans produce.
| | | | | Humans ain't perfect either | Jul 13, 2015 |
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
It doesn't always work ...and you never know when, if and where a mistranslation will occur.
Sounds like most human translators.
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
French: Investir en bon père de famille
MT: Invest in a good father.
I could take pretty much any human translation and pick out a mistranslation too. I don't think that proves anything.
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Wie zum Teufel wissen wir, was in 10 Jahren passieren? = How the hell do we know, what happen in 10 years? It's missing the "will (=wird)" part at the end of the German question, or, since this is possible in German, the verb passieren would have to be rendered as "passiert" to be correct.
But the sentence is still totally intelligible.
Just because Google Translate (which is free and so presumably far from state-of-the-art) doesn't get everything right doesn't mean it's useless.
When you bought a Japanese VCR, you always got it working in the end, didn't you? And that was people.
How many people do you know who always finish their sentences?
I know nothing about algorithms, but if humans can acquire languages simply by hearing what other people say, I don't see why computers couldn't.
I really don't know what will happen, and it beats me how you can all be so certain.
Because you're high-end translators? Well so am I. If the machines aren't taking over, explain to me why no translation agency today would be willing to pay me what they were happy to pay me 10-15 years ago?
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Radian Yazynin
Local time: 05:26
Member (2004)
English to Russian
+ ...
Christine Andersen wrote:
MT is not going to go away
As many times discussed, if there is something that can be supported by MT why not use it. By the way, my first steps with Moses (the part developed for non-experts) were reassuring to a certain extent (you can create your own tailored engine to translate specific texts).
[Edited at 2015-07-13 09:48 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-07-13 09:49 GMT]
| | | | | Nothing to do with machine translation | Jul 13, 2015 |
Chris S wrote:
I know nothing about algorithms, but if humans can acquire languages simply by hearing what other people say, I don't see why computers couldn't.
Because humans are alive when they listen. Machines are not. Try to teach you dog, if you have any, to speak your own language. Failed? I see. Probably because dogs have not yet developed enough brain power? Machines have not either. Which may lead to an idea that they will, and I would not have any problem to accept that. What seems unlikely, though, is that it will happen in our lifetime. Just think about mobile phones. The first call was made in late 70s, probably. We still use damn little device and speak though the same damn little hole called receiver, handset or whatever. We do not have a mobile phone imbedded in our bodies and do not have a virtual 3D image of the person we are talking to in from of us. In other words, there’s been no revolution ever since the first phone call was made.
explain to me why no translation agency today would be willing to pay me what they were happy to pay me 10-15 years ago?
Because “bonanza” times are over, Greece went belly up, entire EU and US economies went belly up and the “resurrection” process is not yet over, by far not. This means that there are scores of folks trying to make a living with something they do not really belong to. Obviously, they pull their pants down or simply take them off altogether. Agencies take advantage of the low rates accepted by ignorant half-professionals, until the movie is over and the client feels cheated on. Sometimes the movie is not over and the train of ignorance carries on indefinitely. In other words, the profession rather than being “institutionalised”, actually gets “prostitutionalised”. Language and translation-related degrees, subject matter expertise and years of experience are still valued, but such occasions are rare. This has nothing to do with machine translation taking over. This means suboptimal substandard human translators are taking over.
| | | | | Don't worry, Tom | Jul 13, 2015 |
I think there will be a fair amount of 'know thy enemy' at the MT powwow.
Machines have a lot of trouble with Danish, so we're not letting them loose without humans firmly in charge!
As most of the talk will be in Danish, I can NOT promise that anybody's real-time Babel fish or other device will work as an interpreter either...
... See more
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Merab Dekano wrote:
In other words, the profession rather than being “institutionalised”, actually gets “prostitutionalised”.
Love it!
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Andrea Muller (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:26
English to German
+ ...
| Technology affects other professions, too | Jul 13, 2015 |
Christine Andersen wrote:
Law is a minefield that nobody would entrust to computers...
[Edited at 2015-07-09 09:49 GMT]
Michal Fabian wrote:
When companies developing machine translation engines start using MT for their own legal texts, I'll give it a try.
[Edited at 2015-07-12 19:25 GMT]
Lawyers are affected by new technology, too. For example, there is software for drafting contracts. So we might already be translating contracts created by one of these programs. But I don't know whether document automation has actually led to any job losses in the legal sector yet.
http://www.lexisnexis.co.uk/en-uk/products/lexis-smart-bespoke.page
"Document automation enables your users to draft documents using a questionnaire to input data and choose the right options and clauses."
"Reduces risk and empowers junior lawyers to produce high quality documents
Increases efficiency by reducing the time spent drafting by up to 80%"
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/15/robot-doctors-online-lawyers-automated-architects-future-professions-jobs-technology
"Five years ago, entrepreneur Charley Moore founded online legal services provider Rocket Lawyer. It now boasts 30 million users. Subscribers pay a monthly fee for instant access to pre‑prepared documents and tutorials, as well as online legal advice from experts at participating firms."
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 22:26
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Will technology replace the Job of a translator? | Jul 13, 2015 |
Thanks Andrea,
Looks like in the legal profession, as in other professions (like computers that write sports articles in the USA), the easy and routine stuff will be done by machines, requiring humans to do only the "hard" work.
The problem in the field of translation then is how to delineate the "easy" projects that can be done by the machines and/or the one-centers from those that require an expert hand.
I sent this one to a doctor friend who keeps claim... See more Thanks Andrea,
Looks like in the legal profession, as in other professions (like computers that write sports articles in the USA), the easy and routine stuff will be done by machines, requiring humans to do only the "hard" work.
The problem in the field of translation then is how to delineate the "easy" projects that can be done by the machines and/or the one-centers from those that require an expert hand.
I sent this one to a doctor friend who keeps claiming that I have been replaced with a computer:
Machines will replace 80 percent of doctors
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-09/04/doctors-replaced-with-machines
Funny how you never hear from these programmers about machines that will be able to code programs themselves...
Andrea Muller wrote:
[Edited at 2015-07-13 13:44 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-07-13 13:50 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Jeff Whittaker wrote:
Looks like in the legal profession, as in other professions (like computers that write sports articles in the USA), the easy and routine stuff will be done by machines, requiring humans to do only the "hard" work.
Let us not confuse legal texts with weather forecast. To my knowledge, and I've studied law for five years in Spain and three years in the UK, there is no "easy" part to it, especially when confronted with the consequences of misinterpreting (or as lawyers say, misconstruing) a part of a phrase, paragraph, section, page or entire document, if you will. I presume you understand that law is not an exact science. Terminology is important, yes, but the "spirit" is even more so.
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