| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] | KudoZ answers and quality of ProZ glossary Thread poster: Oliver Lawrence
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carly kelly 
Italy
Local time: 13:31
Italian to English
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| getting out of hand... | Apr 17, 2009 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote: Peter Manda wrote: José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
"Native speaker" is a variant of racism
How very true, Jose. Anytime anyone pounds on "purity" I know intuitively that something is deeply wrong, either with the person or the situation. what are you talking about? Are you comparing wanting to translate only into your own language to "purity" and "racism"? OMG... and what an assumption to make...  I teally can't believe what I'm reading...
Neither can I Giovanni. I'm speechless.
I could cope with something along the lines of "snobbery", but "racism" and "purism" are on a competely different level.
The fact that I translate into my native language is and will continue to be one of my main selling points.
I'll make no apologies for that.
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[quote]Mira Stepanovic wrote:
The title of this thread is KudoZ answers and quality of ProZ glossary and I had that in mind when submitting my previous post.
Mira
I was really quoting Peter (and José), not you...
G
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Thanks, but I believe that I had to clarify my opinion on non-natives participating in KudoZ Q & A since I quoted Peter (and José) .
Mira
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Mira Stepanovic wrote:
We have KudoZ answerers participating in 60+ language pairs and yet they have declared only three of them to be their working languages, one of them their native language.
Are you sure? I thought the KudoZ system was set up so that nobody can answer questions that don't match their working language pairs. If this isn't the case, then I urge ProZ to introduce that measure right away.
To summarize my view on this topic, I would just like to say this:
- Obviously, the ratio of bad or unacceptable answers is higher in the non-native group than in the native group.
- Some non-natives can just as well provide usable and even excellent answers, even though they are a minority.
- Excluding non-natives from answering questions would be dicriminatory to the minority of non-natives proficient enough to provide usable answers.
- Excluding non-natives from answering questions would deprive the KudoZ community of some very useful answers.
I have a lot of trouble with this discussion because people seem to be very categoric in their points of view. I'd rather work with an excellent non-native translator than with a mediocre native translator. Excluding non-natives will never eliminate bad KudoZ answers. Bad answers given by non-natives are just one among many factors causing the KoG to be unreliable.
Ultimately, it is those who choose unreliable answers to add to the KoG who are at fault, not those who gave those unreliable answers.
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DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
| many beautiful minds | Apr 17, 2009 |
I personally don't mind non-native speakers giving the correct answer:
1) because they may just encountered that term or expression in the proper context and
2) they are good native speakers but in their mother tongue;
No person can do full justice to a decent job done, nor to prove the absolute Truth. Still there are people who can search the kudoz&glossary and choose the best variant and even someone can say thank-you. Very much so.
Anyway it's b... See more I personally don't mind non-native speakers giving the correct answer:
1) because they may just encountered that term or expression in the proper context and
2) they are good native speakers but in their mother tongue;
No person can do full justice to a decent job done, nor to prove the absolute Truth. Still there are people who can search the kudoz&glossary and choose the best variant and even someone can say thank-you. Very much so.
Anyway it's better than nothing and it does come in handy when used wisely
Cheers
[Редактировалось 2009-04-17 15:35 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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ViktoriaG wrote: Mira Stepanovic wrote:
We have KudoZ answerers participating in 60+ language pairs and yet they have declared only three of them to be their working languages, one of them their native language. Are you sure?
I'm absolutely sure Viktoria. Unfortunately.
Mira
| | | | carly kelly
Italy
Local time: 13:31
Italian to English
+ ...
| bad answers...bad choices...bad glossary entries | Apr 17, 2009 |
ViktoriaG wrote:
[Ultimately, it is those who choose unreliable answers to add to the KoG who are at fault, not those who gave those unreliable answers.
That's exactly what Oliver (the topic starter) was saying. The question is, what can be done about bad glossary entries?
Nothing, it seems.
| | | | | What? Imperfect world? | Apr 17, 2009 |
Kudoz DOES work. Sometimes, the results are bad. Mostly, at least in my pair (En-Rus), they are quite OK. Some people give wrong answers, a few choose wrong answers, they may find their way into the glossary.
So what?
Some answers are great. Some are useful. Some are so-so. Some - wrong (Internal censor deselected a couple of synonyms.
God filled those 12-15-?? cm between our ears with some ... See more Kudoz DOES work. Sometimes, the results are bad. Mostly, at least in my pair (En-Rus), they are quite OK. Some people give wrong answers, a few choose wrong answers, they may find their way into the glossary.
So what?
Some answers are great. Some are useful. Some are so-so. Some - wrong (Internal censor deselected a couple of synonyms.
God filled those 12-15-?? cm between our ears with some really useful stuff so we could make a correct choice. Those who can't do that shouldn't be translating things for money in the first place. ▲ Collapse
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Anne-Marie Grant (X)
Local time: 12:31
French to English
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| Maybe there should be a window of opportunity | Apr 17, 2009 |
between the moment at which an answer is chosen and the point at which the glossary entry is made, for peers to make suggestions about the glossary entry. In the same way as we are asked to wait 24 hours before closing a question, is there any reason why we should not wait 24 hours before making a glossary entry to allow others time to make a comment/suggestion about what should be entered? I'm sure there would be some arguments, but these would add rather than detract from the validity of the e... See more between the moment at which an answer is chosen and the point at which the glossary entry is made, for peers to make suggestions about the glossary entry. In the same way as we are asked to wait 24 hours before closing a question, is there any reason why we should not wait 24 hours before making a glossary entry to allow others time to make a comment/suggestion about what should be entered? I'm sure there would be some arguments, but these would add rather than detract from the validity of the eventual glossary entry. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Making entries to KOG is compulsory | Apr 17, 2009 |
ViktoriaG wrote:
Ultimately, it is those who choose unreliable answers to add to the KoG who are at fault, not those who gave those unreliable answers.
Hello Victoria
Hey? Actually when I first came here, only certain people made entries to the KOG, (and as a newcomer I was so overawed by the Pros here that I didn't). But then it became compulsory ... http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_asking/2.7#2.7
And I agree with Valery from Belarus. IMO KudoZ works quite well in my pair.
Lesley
[Edited at 2009-04-17 20:37 GMT]
| | | | Zea_Mays
Italy
Local time: 13:31
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
Riccardo Schiaffino wrote: ViktoriaG wrote:
If the attribution of points for answers (and for comments on them - I always found this strange) were abolished, I think there would be less competition, and people would concentrate more on quality and leave quantity behind. Of course, overall participation would drop, and so would Web traffic...
Edit: I just wanted to add that if the points system were abolished, I would probably start answering KudoZ questions again. I wonder how many of us feel this way... I for one also would start answering again if the point system were abolished or, at the very least, if it were improved by indicating not a points total, but a ratio of correct answers given to total answers given, as advocated by many of us for many years.
In addition, I would abolish the 10 browniz given for a glossary entry.
I am sure, it would effect miracles...
And there's one thing I still can't believe: do I get POINTS when I give an agree/disagree?? Can anyone enlighten me please?
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Anne-Marie Grant wrote:
In the same way as we are asked to wait 24 hours before closing a question, is there any reason why we should not wait 24 hours before making a glossary entry to allow others time to make a comment/suggestion about what should be entered?
I agree with what you are saying. However, the problem right now is that entering a term into the glossary and closing a question are linked together. So, when someone closes a question, they can at the same time enter the term into the glossary.
Moreover, askers are only asked to close questions after 24 hours - they are not required to do so. Some argue that the asker often needs a solution fast, and they can't wait 24 hours to find the right term. I think this argument is missing the point. The asker can use whatever answers they get before the 24 hours are up, and still keep the question open so that those who are in different time zones have time to post their answers. I can't think of a single argument to close a question before the 24 hours are up, except maybe that the person who enters the term in the glossary gets 10 BrowniZ. Once again, the issue is points...
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DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
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| almost right | Apr 19, 2009 |
Once again, the issue is points...
You don't say so! According to the topic the problem for some people is an inexact / loose KudoZ and ProZ glossary terms and expressions. It's rather fancy for even using a worldwide known dictionary of some proven authority still may result in aт 'inexact-bad-wrong' translation.
Just choose the right variant wisely and stay sensible - that will do IMO
Cheers
[Редактировалось 2009-04-19 12:44 GMT]
| | | | liz askew
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:31
Member (2007)
French to English
+ ...
| No, the original point of the posting is quality, not points | Apr 20, 2009 |
"You don't say so! According to the topic the problem for some people is an inexact / loose KudoZ and ProZ.com glossary terms and expressions. It's rather fancy for even using a worldwide known dictionary of some proven authority still may result in aт 'inexact-bad-wrong' translation".
I believe the point was made by an earlier contributor that the ProZ glossary was not a dictionary written by any authority, as there are so many, many translators contributing to it.
Al... See more "You don't say so! According to the topic the problem for some people is an inexact / loose KudoZ and ProZ.com glossary terms and expressions. It's rather fancy for even using a worldwide known dictionary of some proven authority still may result in aт 'inexact-bad-wrong' translation".
I believe the point was made by an earlier contributor that the ProZ glossary was not a dictionary written by any authority, as there are so many, many translators contributing to it.
Also, in a dictionary, we are looking up words to find their "equivalent" translation. In ProZ, when a translation is suggested, we are provided with CONTEXT, so all the more reason to choose a quality answer by the asker.
Liz Askew ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 13:31
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| Smart usage- all translators should know what it means | Apr 20, 2009 |
liz askew wrote:
Also, in a dictionary, we are looking up words to find their "equivalent" translation. In ProZ, when a translation is suggested, we are provided with CONTEXT, so all the more reason to choose a quality answer by the asker.
Liz Askew
As far as I'm concerned, for an accurate translation/ term selection, a much broader context is required than that provided in KudoZ ( for the most part).
And yes, I agree with you, all it takes is common sense - no authority, no authorized ( legal) arbitration in selecting terms, no enough context- and thus each translator should know that it should to be taken with a pinch of salt.
I prefer consulting dictionaries, lexicons, glossaries signed with full names of authorities who are legally responsible for the accuracy, although I admit KudoZ glossary can also serve as a good reference, if used smartly.
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